AriBen Aviator 100hr multi program?

[Flymach2]

Hi...

Yes, you're right you can't be proven wrong. However, I've always believed that our profession is a noble one. Even with some of the questionable things that have happened in the recent past. Integrity and character are important qualities,(amongst others), to have when you have others' lives in your hands. There is no substitute for experience and those who choose to cheat themselves out of that experience to gain a few hours in their logbooks are not only hurting themselves, but they are ultimately going to hurt,(or kill), someone else. If you honestly do the program in the way it is intended, you will learn some valuable skills. Make certain your partner feels the same way.

As professional pilots, we are held to a high standard. We are on our honor when documenting our flight time. I think it is a sad day when we have to question whether or not someone's logbook is factual.

Regards

 

[a-v-8er]

I'll echo that! ...there's not much I can do about someone else's honesty, but try to lead by example. My logbook is as good of a document of my real experience (in hours) as it has personal value to me as far as how much I've actually flown (conditions of flight included). If I didn't value knowing how much I've done for my own reasons, than maybe I'd feel differently about entering hood time regardless if I had the "blastshield" (Starwars) on or not!
However, I do care about what entries I put in my logbook and I want it to reflect what I've actually done. Hopefully, I can convince whoever else I team up with the same if they don't seem to care about it...

 

[Starsailor]

A couple notes:

I agree with tarp that tuning radios and playing FO is not flying per se. I much preferred the flying portion of my 100 hours, of course. Three of the people that I was in the program with were MEIs at the time, and when I could get paired with them, we'd go up for about 3 hours straight of approaches, done single-engine to the missed with an intersection hold. I at least insisted that my partner watch me do approaches all day and night. Better training.

Some of the people there would just want to go fly to somewhere, like Mobile, or Savannah. I did a few of these, but coming back was requesting approaches all the way back down the coast.

A few of the people there wouldn't want to wear the hood, and I just wouldn't fly with them. I'm not trying to prove that I'm on higher moral ground or anything, but this was my money and time they were wasting, and I wasn't about to let it happen. Right next to me, no less.

Out of the aforementioned Walkwitz Aviation, I once landed at Spruce Creek and taxied up to one of the company Apaches with its beacon on. I told them so, and they just nodded and smiled. It was after I had left that day that I learned from my partner that that particular airplane had the Hobbs hooked to the master. Can you believe, paying however much an hour to not even fly? I mean why bother paying all that money when a Parker pen still costs only about 3 bucks? I shudder to think that either of those guys is employed somewhere. That incident and the numerous mechanical problems their airplanes had made me get my money back from them and spend it in Ft. Pierce instead.

Is it 100 hours in the logbook according to 14 CFR 61? Unquestionably yes. Is it worth that much in experience? I think it all depends on what you make of it. Once I had passed 2500 hours, I began to really understand what people here talk about when they say hours don't mean Jack. Experience is key. The day a pilot stops learning is the day he or she begins their final descent. I agree with a-v-8er that we must lead by example, taking action to make our chosen profession a noble one, instead of accepting mediocrity, or worse yet, outright lying about the flying you're doing.

*steps up on soapbox*

On that note (mediocrity), I've flown with guys who'll chase needles (!) down an ILS in a jet, then by some miracle of nature wrestle the airplane on the ground half a wingspan left of centerline and way over Vref, and then they continue to accept that from themselves over and over? I mean I have bad days too, but come on. We owe it to our customers to strive for perfection, even if it is unattainable, and even if it is only freight . Pride in doing a good job is part of the stuff our parents should have taught us.

*steps down*

Flymach2 says it very well:

As professional pilots, we are held to a high standard. We are on our honor when documenting our flight time. I think it is a sad day when we have to question whether or not someone's logbook is factual.

Amen, brother. It's time I go to bed. The pager is a ruthless mistress.

Regards,
Starsailor

 

[AOPAPILOT]

a-v-8er needs to check with the airlines before you make this statement.

"Now, I also know that the airlines do not look at this as PIC time unless you were the designated PIC (hence, the PIC that logs time per 61.51(e) is not PIC in their eyes unless he also is agreed upon before or during the flight to act PIC)."

If using you statement as truth, then the airlines would not accept the dual given by a CFI as counting towards their total time. I have not heard of any regional airline that will not accept PIC/safety pilot time as total time. If you have, please name them.

AOPAPILOT

 

[Timebuilder]

Perhaps what you are referring to is this: my information is that many airlines prefer to use the FAR Part 1 definition of PIC, as opposed to the Part 61 definition. Since the CFI PIC is the person ultimately responsible for the flight, that time remains intact in their eyes.

A good example of this difference of definitions is when a piston pilot transitions to a tuboprop like a C-90. Under part 61, the sole manipulator time for a multiengine pilot of twin engine aircraft (non-turbojet) under 12,500 lbs can be logged as PIC. Now unless you are permitted to sign that aircraft out for a flight by yourself instead of taking along the watchful eyes of of the pilot who is ultimately responsible for the flight, then it isn't PIC time in the view of some airline interviewers. It is a more restrictive view of PIC time than that permitted by Part 61. This could be very important at an interview that requires "PIC turbine" time.

I know a captain who occaisionally sits on the hiring board at Continental, and he told me that this view is "commonplace" at the airlines, in general.

There may be a red flag when a pilot is acting as a CFI for a flight where the other pilot is already appropriately rated in the aircraft, and it is doubtful that the other pilot needs 50 hours of "instruction" from a CFI. Now you're looking at whether or not this is a personal flag on the part of an interviewer. There is no reg that says that you can't give instruction to someone, but there may be an assumption that the "someone" in question needs instruction in order for the "two PIC" activity to take place. Remember, the airlines are free to use whatever more restrictive standards they like in the screening process.

 

[a-v-8er]

AOPAPILOT:

I didn't mean to imply that all airlines don't recognize what you've logged as PIC, but if you read Timebuilder's response - that's what I was getting at. I can't give you any names, but I was generalizing how most airlines probably view this time. I don't have any interview experience, but from friends and co-workers, this is (again) in general what I've been told.

Cya!

 

[JediNein]

AOPAPILOT,
A list of the H.R. departments that deduct "Safety pilot" time from PIC time:

Skywest
ACA
ASA
American Eagle
United
FedEx
UPS
American Airlines

Admittedly, the last four have much higher requirements than ust PIC time.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[SATCFI]

In reference to a-v-8-tr second post

"Now, I also know that the airlines do not look at this as PIC time unless you were the designated PIC (hence, the PIC that logs time per 61.51(e) is not PIC in their eyes unless he also is agreed upon before or during the flight to act PIC)."

When acting as safety pilot for someone, it MUST be agreed that you are acting as the PIC in order to legally log PIC. Otherwise, you log SIC.

Remember, when you consciously agree to act as PIC while someone else is under the hood and manipulating the controls, you buy any violations.