Are Unions dead?

[rogerwilcoout]

You bring up an excellent point without meaning to do so.

The purpose of a union is to remove competition and our Nation's laws intend to allow a union to establish a monopoly over labor in order to bargain collectively. A union has this power and can effectively yield it if it properly represents its membership.

ALPA has failed. This failure is the direct result of the union allowing and even encouraging competition amongst the labor groups it represents.

ALPA will succeed when it removes competition, when it brings together employees to bargain collectively, standing together, to raise this profession.

We had better hope ALPA does succeed, for it is our only hope of raising this profession.

But if they reduce competition, that means fewer regionals. That means less union dues. Terrible little circle.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I wish CAL had the balls to keep xjt in the total game but they were constantly bombarded with mesa, skywest and republic people telling them they could do it cheaper and maintain service etc. and now xjt has got one hand on their balls and the other over their nose waiting.... I don't know if it is management being stubborn about profit margin, waiting or not even getting into the 70-90 market, I don't know...

"I wish CAL's MEC had the balls to keep xjt on the total seniority list."

After a little edit, your post makes more sense. XJT almost had one list before ALPA and before the guy who became our new ALPA President got involved.

With one list these folks would have a career safe from Mesa, SkyWest and Republic. The Company would have the ability to deploy the right sized airplanes on the right routes without dealing with ALPA's scope mess. A win / win.

Now they (and everyone else) has a lose/lose

Think about it. $10 an hour in crew costs does not go that far towards buying $28,000,000 airplanes which cost $3,500+ an hour to operate. Airline management now says trimming a dollar here and a dollar there is critical to survival. Well let me offer that Continental's purchase of seven and one half billion dollars worth of 50 seat RJ's was not the best use of their money. Delta out did them by another four billion.

Continental at least spun it off, recovering some cash to lessen the sting of their error. Now they are trying to remove the rest of it by attacking pilots.

Are unions dead - the clear answer is YES, unless they start acting like unions and bring employees together.

 

[~~~^~~~]

But if they reduce competition, that means fewer regionals. That means less union dues. Terrible little circle.

No sir, the same number of passengers fly on the same number of airplanes and the gross number of pilots remains about the same. They just earn less.

ALPA thought it could bargain away the regional pilots and we have records of ALPA applying "bargaining credits" in exchange for mainline scope and phantom pay rate proposals. This strategy has failed, but ALPA politicians will never admit a mistake.

ALPA views its dues as coming from mainline carriers and regional pilots as loss leaders. So, ALPA has bargained against its regional members while promoting the interest of its preferred members.

Again - ALPA is dead unless it reverses this trend and represents all pilots within a brand equally.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Just my 1.2 cents

Actually, it's more of a problem of who's in the White House and who controls Congress!

The recent change in Congress will be the first step in turning things around. The next step is to get rid of Bush and replace him with someone labor friendly.


It doesn't matter who is in there. Even if the Hildabeast gets in nothing will change at all. What needs to happen is fix the functionality of ALPA. It is just to big to effectively look out for all of its members best interests. It cant fight for mainline and at the same time fight for a regional especially when mainlines interests conflict with a junior partners interests. ALPA either needs to split into two distinct unions to honestly fight for the rights of each party involved or the regionals need to find another form of representation that is not under control of ALPA.

Unions are an evil necessity because of management tactics. Skywest management would not be treating them the way they are if there were no such thing as unions. But, as stated in earlier posts, a union is only as good as its leadership and far to often, only the agenda of the leadership are moved forward and not the best interests of the group. I don't see any change to the Status Quo until each party receives individual unbiased representation, i.e. ALPA for Mainline and ?? for the regionals.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Tim:

So close to an understanding, but let me offer you this.

ALPA's problem is that it has no Supreme Court to decide conflicts between the majority and the minority.

ALPA's size is a tremendous benefit. ALPA could be THE pilots' union. All it needs is a single voice that represents what is best for its membership.

ALPA has been hijacked by narrow mainline interests. This hijacking has harmed them as much as it has harmed the regional members. ALPA could be fixed and then its size will be its greatest strength.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hey Fins... maybe if regional guys would show up to LEC meetings they could be more effective than the major guys who don't even show up... How 'bout that?

 

[brnstrmr]

Just a little historical footnote, weren't the APA pilots slammed in '98 by the Clinton administration's NLRB for an illegal job action? Fines were leveled against the union that nearly brought about bakruptcy. So does having a democrat in the White House really help the pilots union?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Just a little historical footnote, weren't the APA pilots slammed in '98 by the Clinton administration's NLRB for an illegal job action? Fines were leveled against the union that nearly brought about bakruptcy. So does having a democrat in the White House really help the pilots union?

The NLRB doesn't apply to airline labor......

In addition the APA conducted an illegal job action...

 

[Tim47SIP]

Fins

ALPA's size is a tremendous benefit. ALPA could be THE pilots' union. All it needs is a single voice that represents what is best for its membership.


Yes you are right but where will you get the support from the mainline guys?? It aint goin to happen! ALPA would be great as a single union representing all but it cant represent both sides of the fence at one time as long as there are two sides to the fence. Arogance and greed will never allow for complete equality. But I get your point.

 

[HA25]

Let's hope so.

So now, are you really the DO at ASA? I don't get it? ... or do you just have fun being a bane on the FI.com world?


as to the question.. unions are not dead, but with the lack of real support in congress among the "new" Democrats, and certianly not among the Republicans... it all comes down to political support.

Sadly, the days of the original ALPA and the stedfastness of the true professionals that manned the cockpits of the connies and 707's.. today, everyone wants to dawn a pilots uniform, even if it means working for peanuts flying a RJ for our friend Scott...

The best thing pilots (especially at the regionals) can do is to act like their current job is their last and do all you can to make it a better job and a better place. Don't treat it like a stepping stone and brush off being involvoed. Some unions are certainly far more disfunctional than others.. but a good example of solid unions are the UAL ALPA and DALPA.. both know how to raise the bar and unit under one message.

 

[belchfire]

The other problem that has been danced around but not spoken is that the unions have become big business themselves and won't do anything that will threaten to bankrupt the geese that give them golden eggs...the airlines that employ the pilots.

If you want a rude wakeup call check out the payscales on some of the top union officials-many of them still put Captian in front of their names yet haven't flown enough to truely remain current.

Yeah, the fly it and grieve it crap has got to end. I don't know how to do it but we can't get anything done in an environment that allows the companies to use the union to do what they want to do in the first place.