Are SWA/AAI guys worried?

[BlueBlood]

Honest question.

With the economy starting to tank, again, are any of you worried that Gary may have to get creative to keep from furloughing and/or go another direction? I read the article where Gary and Co. are less than bullish on the 717 and I was curious if anyone out there had an opinion on what he could do to weather this coming storm.

I have dear friends on both sides and would hate to see the economy tank what could have been a good thing.

 

[madjack]

Economy has been tanking, Mr Kelly and others knew what they were doing when they bought AAI, what they may not have bargained for is the ALPA vs management mindset and its affect on the feel goodness at SWA...

This deal is going through...AIP or arby

SWA will never be the same place...

 

[scoreboardII]

Lets put it in perspective, the article also stated the leases run trough 2024, so there is no near term attempt to ditch the 717, to costly. Although, you (not you personally) would be foolish to think the 717's would stick around longer than 2024, they are a legacy airframe. So the 717 bullish talk is a red hearing.

With note the the current 1000pt DOW drop, if I was on the buying end of the deal, I would be running to the voting booth to get my seat on the gravy train before it leaves the station. No assigned seating required.

 

[PropPiedmont]

GK could always put the 717s on leasetrader.com.

 

[Ty Webb]

With note the the current 1000pt DOW drop, if I was on the buying end of the deal, I would be running to the voting booth to get my seat on the gravy train before it leaves the station. No assigned seating required.

I'm pissed. I was up over 30% for the year. Now I'm up just 6%. :angryfire

 

[luv2fly]

+30%; now -3.5% this sucks!

 

[AFcitrus]

Sounds like my seniority loss with the AIP!

 

[jonjuan]

I'm pissed. I was up over 30% for the year. Now I'm up just 6%. :angryfire

Man-ever heard of diversification? It's a marathon.

 

[redflyer65]

I'm pissed. I was up over 30% for the year. Now I'm up just 6%. :angryfire

Gotta learn how and when to go short...I'm riding the gravy train. Stop loses are important too.

I agree with Scoreboard, there is no reason to think the 717 is going away. Think of it this way.. SW never pays top dollar for anything, you think they are going to turn them in with massive penatlies looming? Think again guys, ain't gonna happen.

RF

 

[On Your Six]

Sounds like my seniority loss with the AIP!

No that was funny and sad at the same time.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Gotta learn how and when to go short...I'm riding the gravy train. Stop loses are important too.

I agree with Scoreboard, there is no reason to think the 717 is going away. Think of it this way.. SW never pays top dollar for anything, you think they are going to turn them in with massive penatlies looming? Think again guys, ain't gonna happen.

RF

Have GK put that in writing about the 717s or at least a stronger no furlough clause, etc.(one with penalties and force mejuer language). That should help.


OYS

 

[redflyer65]

Whatever OYS,

Enjoy being number 30 for takeoff behind all those RJ's in JFK, ATL, and DTW...and pretty much any other hub you guys have. Haha.

RF

 

[waveflyer]

Sounds like my seniority loss with the AIP!

I'm getting tired of the math deficient using this stat (ie: lie)

You're built from the same brilliant minds at AA who think that after a 35% paycut, that a 35% pay raise will equalize it.

(airline pilots are just really dumb smart people.)

If you want to talk about your 30% seniority loss- please include what your loss would be under DOH. Your wet dream agreement would have you losing well over 20%- so you're really just b/tching - about ....? .... No longer being a big fish in a LITTLE pond. Sounds like you'd have preferred organic growth - yeah- well us too. Keep the stats and %'s, there mr brilliant.

 

[AFcitrus]

I think I touched a nerve there Wave. When nwa or delta talk about lost seniority they do so from relative %. Relative is the norm by which all SLI comparisons are made. Who knows how this SLI will ultimately turn out but please don't take any sh!t sandwich I may or may not receive and call it peanut butter and jelly.

 

[waveflyer]

So the age difference is unimportant? Just like your huge upgrade equivalent payraise and better work environment and schedule? GMAFB- we shouldn't take anyone who has so little perspective as to think this is a "sh/t sandwich"

This is not a merger of equals as DL/NW was

 

[jonjuan]

So the age difference is unimportant? Just like your huge upgrade equivalent payraise and better work environment and schedule? GMAFB- we shouldn't take anyone who has so little perspective as to think this is a "sh/t sandwich"

This is not a merger of equals as DL/NW was

I personally know of 4 Mesa dudes who went from CFI to Mesa (bottom feeder regional) to SWA in 3 years. All were hired under 30. There are many, many, many cases of folks getting hired A) young, and B) not "putting in their time" as you so aptly put it.
Your mantra seems to be the swa dudes are older and more qualified, i.e. put in more time, cared more, had more LUV, etc. That's NOT true. That's why the big deal will get sent to an independent arbitrator who will really decide the real deal.

 

[madjack]

That's why the big deal will get sent to an independent arbitrator who will really decide the real deal.

I am afraid that JJ is probably right, militant/F(*& management ALPA is going to let Mr Kelly, Mr VDV, Mr McCrady know whose boss...I am wondering if our management is having some regrets that AAI happens to come with 1700 pilots who voted 98% to strike...

 

[GuppyWN]

I personally know of 4 Mesa dudes who went from CFI to Mesa (bottom feeder regional) to SWA in 3 years. All were hired under 30. There are many, many, many cases of folks getting hired A) young, and B) not "putting in their time" as you so aptly put it.
Your mantra seems to be the swa dudes are older and more qualified, i.e. put in more time, cared more, had more LUV, etc. That's NOT true. That's why the big deal will get sent to an independent arbitrator who will really decide the real deal.

No Juan,

You guys are an average of 10 years younger than we are. That means our career expectations would get clogged by a list full of Airtran guys if there were no adjustment.

Even WITH the current adjustment Airtran pilots will DOMINATE the WN seniority list around that 2020 point.

Gup

 

[jonjuan]

No Juan,

You guys are an average of 10 years younger than we are.

New-hires the past 10 years average 10 years younger at AT?

 

[Tripower455]

I personally know of 4 Mesa dudes who went from CFI to Mesa (bottom feeder regional) to SWA in 3 years. All were hired under 30. There are many, many, many cases of folks getting hired A) young, and B) not "putting in their time" as you so aptly put it.
Your mantra seems to be the swa dudes are older and more qualified, i.e. put in more time, cared more, had more LUV, etc. That's NOT true. That's why the big deal will get sent to an independent arbitrator who will really decide the real deal.

Not to speak for WF, but we are an older group, meaning that every younger guy put in front of us is a permanent loss in seniority, as in forever, whereas an older guy put in front of you will retire before you at some point, allowing you to move up. You really think you "deserve" to dominate our list and that's "fair and equitable" to the organic SW guys?

There are far less of those "hired young" guys here than at AT. We've had very few 30 year old Captains here, ever. Maybe in the very early days.

Heck, I had just turned 31 when I got hired, and was the third youngest in my class, and will be under #50 when I retire.