Are CFI Signatures Required for Logging Dual Time?

[avbug]

Midlife,

There is no interpretation of the regulation to apply here. The language is clear. Entirely unambiguous. The word MUST is imperitive. You must sign the logbook. Period. End of story. No room for arguement, no room for discussion. You absolutely, without question, must sign the logbook.

We face the same thing in maintenance. Very often when an aircraft needs a repair, there are no logbooks to sign. This leaves a mechanic in a quandry, because the maintenance records must be signed off.

The simple soloution is to sign a sitcker for the logbook, which is then put in the logbook. No requirement exists to sign the line item in the student's logbook, only to sign the student's logbook.

Once you sign the sticker and present it to the student, the sticker has become partof the student's logs. If the student elects not to put it in the logbook, the student is in error and has failed to complete the duty prescribed by the regulation. You, however, have fulfilled your duty.

If you fail to provide a signature, you have failed the regulation. There is nothing to interpret, no need for sarcasm, or smart remarks. You don't even need to apologise for failure to adhere to the regulation. Only to correct it and move on. Isn't that simple?

 

[midlifeflyer]

jtidmore,

They can't. Without my signature, it's not countable as dual for 61.51 purposes. That part is pretty clear from 61.51.

I do have an alternative for them, though. Like Avbug, I'm a believer in detailed records. When I write them, I tend to make logbook entries pretty short, but back it up with a two-part knee board sized form that lets me go into detail about the training. We both sign them and keep a copy. For the transient, I don't see a problem with the pilot making an entry that references the external document, perhaps even pasting it in the back of the logbook.

 

[jtidmore]

midlife,

So is it your opinion that the time could be logged without a signature, just not as dual, if they were qualified to act as PIC of the aircraft?

And, if someone is not seeking additional ratings is there any reason to log flights as dual where the pilot is appropriately rated for the aircraft and the flight?

In other words, if I take a flight instructor along for a flight does that flight have to be logged as dual?

Thanks.

 

[midlifeflyer]

So is it your opinion that the time could be logged without a signature, just not as dual, if they were qualified to act as PIC of the aircraft?

Absolutely.

And, if someone is not seeking additional ratings is there any reason to log flights as dual where the pilot is appropriately rated for the aircraft and the flight?

"Any" reason? I don't think there is a =regulatory= reason for the pilot to log the flights. If you're not pursuing a rating that requires it, there's nothing that says you have to log it.

But whether a regulation requires something, while an interesting topic to bandy about, isn't the final word. certainly about what is smart.

I do think that there are many good reasons to log training received. Remember that ultimately the logbook is your official record of experience, useful for both FAA and non-FAA purposes. Insurance companies and employers (you never know) ask about it.

And what about an accident or incident? I'd be willing to bet that the pilot who shows a regular pattern of receiving recurrent training gives his attorney or other representative a lot more to work with during a certificate action process or injury lawsuit action than one who, except for the flight review on a calm day, shows no instruction in his logbook and can be painted as a pilot who doesn't care about training or safety.

 

[jtidmore]

Midlife,

Very good points.

I guess I need to either continue to maintain my paper logbook for the time being or capture signatures for dual time on a document kept in the back of the electronic logbook printouts.

Thanks for your help.