Approaches at JetBlue

[Dogwood]

Hey JetBlue Airbus drivers,

Can any of you tell me what type of approaches you are certified to do?
Cat II, IIIa, IIIb.

And, which non-precision approaches do you do?
VORs, NDBs, etc. Do your RNAVs have a glideslope?

In my former life at US, all we could do was ILSs and RNAVs with a glide-slope.

ADFs were not installed.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Booster]

CAT IIIb
ILS
VOR, RNAV/GPS Yes there is a G/S

No ADF installed

 

[Dogwood]

CAT IIIb
ILS
VOR, RNAV/GPS Yes there is a G/S

No ADF installed

Thanks,

Looks like the only difference is that we didn't do VORs.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

No ADF installed

How do you listen to the radio then?

 

[oldxfr8dog]

How do you listen to the radio then?

Enroute, we mostly strum guitars and sing "Koom by ahh" (sp?) as we drink Kool-Aide...

 

[Flying Freddie]

And TV.

 

[jetbluedog]

ILS - Cat IIIB (Although I have yet to shoot one in real life - been drilled in the sim.)

God help me if I have to fly an NDB in my airbus!!

VOR/RNAV have been done, but not frequently

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Another difference between JetBlue and US Airways A320 approach procedures:


At US Airways, we could only do RNAV/FMS approaches in the fully managed mode -- ie. with a glide path computed and followed. Basically just like an ILS.

At JetBlue, we can and sometimes do the non-precision approaches (RNAV/FMS or VOR) non-managed (or selected) vertically. Basically, what one would might call "dive and drive".

Obviously, the fully managed non-precisions are easier and generally safer (they are essentially precision approaches). However, it is not always feasible to do them that way.

One example is the VOR to 13L at JFK when the ceiling is below 1200' (the fully managed MDA is 1200'). To go all the way to mins, you have to use vert speed (or actually, at JetBlue we use selected Flight Path Angle -- FPA) to get all the way down to 800'.

If you've never flown the A320, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about...

 

[Dogwood]

Another difference between JetBlue and US Airways A320 approach procedures:


At US Airways, we could only do RNAV/FMS approaches in the fully managed mode -- ie. with a glide path computed and followed. Basically just like an ILS.

At JetBlue, we can and sometimes do the non-precision approaches (RNAV/FMS or VOR) non-managed (or selected) vertically. Basically, what one would might call "dive and drive".

Obviously, the fully managed non-precisions are easier and generally safer (they are essentially precision approaches). However, it is not always feasible to do them that way.

One example is the VOR to 13L at JFK when the ceiling is below 1200' (the fully managed MDA is 1200'). To go all the way to mins, you have to use vert speed (or actually, at JetBlue we use selected Flight Path Angle -- FPA) to get all the way down to 800'.

If you've never flown the A320, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about...

Thanks... That's what I was looking for. I flew the bus at US Airways as well, and as you know we were very limited as to how we could shoot RNAV approaches.

 

[TonyC]

If you've never flown the A320, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about...

What? Do you think A320's are the only airplanes with FMS's, GPS's, Vert Speed or FPA, VNAV or PROF? Honeywell does a lotta other business, ya know.

 

[8vATE]

What? Do you think A320's are the only airplanes with FMS's, GPS's, Vert Speed or FPA, VNAV or PROF? Honeywell does a lotta other business, ya know.

Don't think he made that comment as in insult...
I mean... really... the A320 is state of the art... in 1985!!!


Here's one Airbus unique thing though..

Ground Speed Mini....

I still have to look it up to figure out what its doing!


Tailwinds to you...

 

[TonyC]

Here's one Airbus unique thing though..

Ground Speed Mini....

Hmmmm... that sounds like the Minimum Groundspeed method we used to handle LLWS on approach back when I was flying ... oh, nevermind.

 

[AutoBus]

ILS - Cat IIIB (Although I have yet to shoot one in real life - been drilled in the sim.)

God help me if I have to fly an NDB in my airbus!!

VOR/RNAV have been done, but not frequently

Actually not a problem, it is completely managed. just like an RNAV. Except you monitor the ADF instead of the Nav accuracy. It will even compute a vertical descent path and start down all on it own.

 

[jetblue320]

Hmmmm... that sounds like the Minimum Groundspeed method we used to handle LLWS on approach back when I was flying ... oh, nevermind.

Nope, not a "method" or procedure. It's actually a kind of software (or maybe a hard wired computer) that maintains a minimum groundspeed on all approaches (in LLWS or Normal ops) assuming you have not manually selected an airspeed.

And what does "back when I was flying" mean? FedEx FE right? No flame, just curious.

C yaaaa

 

[capt. megadeth]

I heard that at JetBlue, they discourage you guys/gals from any hand flying......any truth? Just curious.

 

[TonyC]

And what does "back when I was flying" mean? FedEx FE right? No flame, just curious.

No, it was back when I had two Navs.

 

[klhoard]

No, it was back when I had two Navs.

.
.
Reminds me of a joke from back in 'Nam. . .
.
.
.
"Two Nav's walk into the Randolf AFB base operations building. . . ."
.
.
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Ahhhh, those were the days. . . .
.
.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

TonyC wrote:

What? Do you think A320's are the only airplanes with FMS's, GPS's, Vert Speed or FPA, VNAV or PROF? Honeywell does a lotta other business, ya know.

Sorry Tony. Didn't mean to offend, if I did. I was in hurry, and didn't really pay as much attention to my remarks as I should have. I actually have worked at Honeywell (representing the USAF) on a KC-10 FMS mod -- I know Honeywell does a lot of work all over the industry.

I guess the only Airbus specific stuff I mentioned is the use of the terms "Managed" versus "Selected" -- then again, I may be wrong. However, when I flew the 757/767 at US Airways, we didn't use those terms, neither do we use them in the KC-10.

Didn't mean to be so provincial.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

I heard that at JetBlue, they discourage you guys/gals from any hand flying......any truth? Just curious.

Actually, not nearly as much as they did when I flew the plane at US Airways. At that company, we were not even allowed to turn off the autothrust, and were encouraged to fly as fully automated as possible.

At JetBlue, we are encouraged to use the automation as much as possible in busy environments -- arriving/departing places like JFK, BOS, LGB. Also, we are encouraged to use it in bad weather or in areas of high terrain during IMC/night.

However, there many times when I'm flying when the autopilot is still off well into the climb to cruise, or fairly early in the descent. And, at JetBlue, I can (and do) turn off the autothrust on many approaches.

Not too restrictive -- just when it makes sense, in my opinion.

 

[Flying Freddie]

And when I hand fly the A 320 I always work on my trimming technique!

 

[Mugs]

So how do you guys at Jetblue do an approach like say the LOC 27 at San Diego? LOC / VS or the LOC and TRK / FPA mode? Dive and drive or constant angle descent?

 

[Flying Freddie]

LOC and TRK / FPA mode.

 

[capt. megadeth]

And when I hand fly the A 320 I always work on my trimming technique!

Yeah! I can trim the airplane better than ever!

 

[TonyC]

Sorry Tony. Didn't mean to offend, if I did.

No offense taken - - y'all musta missed the little thingie at the end.

 

[AA717driver]

How do you turn off the autothrust? I thought the 320's throttles didn't move? (I've got to learn this stuff since I'm hovering over the phone for when Virgin America calls... )TC

 

[jetblue320]

How do you turn off the autothrust? I thought the 320's throttles didn't move? (I've got to learn this stuff since I'm hovering over the phone for when Virgin America calls... )TC

Each thrust lever has a disconnect button. You are correct, they do not move automatically, but they will move if you physically push or pull them. The technique is to retard them to match an indicator dot on the EPR gauge, then push the disconnect button, then they are in manual mode. If you just push the button without retarding them first, hold on! There is also a Master Switch for AutoThrust on the FCU panel (MCP if you are a Boeing driver).

Hope that helped.

C yaaa

 

[Blue Dude]

How do you turn off the autothrust? I thought the 320's throttles didn't move? (I've got to learn this stuff since I'm hovering over the phone for when Virgin America calls... )TC

When the autothrust is active, the thrust levers stay in the climb detent, and they don't move. But when you turn off the autothrust (there are several ways to do it), then the thrust levers act like the way you'd expect. The Airbus is weird, but not that weird.

 

[Dizel8]

The A-320 power levers do move, from idle to TOGA, however, along the way are a few detents. In essence it goes Idle to CLIMB with first detent at CLIMB, next detent is FLEX/MCT and finally TOGA which is the stop at the top.

The A/THR do not have a motor that move the powerlevers when power changes occur and while that may seem eerie at first, it soon becomes second nature.

The autothrust can certainly be deactivated, in which case it works just like normal powerlevers.

 

[wndshr]

So how do you guys at Jetblue do an approach like say the LOC 27 at San Diego? LOC / VS or the LOC and TRK / FPA mode? Dive and drive or constant angle descent?

if the wx is not all the way down to mins...it is easier to do rnav/gps 27 ...it is a much more "friendly" approach with less than the 3.5 degree fpa on the loc27...great for visuals too