APA takes a stand: no xray, no public pat down

[BoilerUP]

A little thread drift but it is a related subject.

The line about "100 chest xrays per hour" shocked me.

I did a quick search and that number sounds inaccurate. I did learn that it will take me 27 years to establish a 1-100 chance of developing a fatal cancer. Considering that I am 13 years into the process really suks.

Another item I found was the huge impact of solar flares. Unfortunately, a "solar maximum" is supposed to begin during the summer of 2011 and it will last more than one year. The amount of radiation exposure during this period will be the equivalent of 10 to 20 YEARS of radiation, depending on the type of flying involved.

If I was flying long haul over the higher latitudes I would seriously bid a different schedule.

Bizjet studs up in the high 40's and even 510 are going to bear the brunt of the radiation.

We may need to update the retirement charts as a whole bunch of us are going to get nuked over the next couple of years. Good times.

AC 120-61A says the recommended occupational exposure limit for ionizing radiation is a 5-year average effective dose of 20 millisieverts per year, with no more than 50 millisieverts in a single year.

To put the amount of flying it would take to get to the recommended 20 millisievert annual limit of exposure into perspective, after taking into consideration the 2.95 millisievert average exposure from natural sources everybody gets, you could fly 40 round-trips from NYC to Dubai, or 62 round trips from Beijing to Chicago, or 500 domestic mid-latitude, 4-hour legs up at FL450.

Concern about cosmic radiation exposure *is* valid...but I think how many Diet Cokes or cheeseburgers the average pilot consumes will be a FAR larger factor in their risk for health issues and/or cancer than the amount of radiation one gets while flying.

 

[Kharma Police]

Step 1. Designate a city - preferably one with a high pilot population.

Step 2. Pick a date, time and terminal.

Step 3. Have every pilot in the area go through security and request the pat down option. Be sure to leave the computer in the wheelaboard, stock up on plenty of pocket change and carry your phone.

Step 4. When finally clear of security, repeat Step 3.

Bring a terminal to a grinding halt a few times and I'll bet Crew Pass will happen sooner rather than later.

deleted

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

More APA bravado, chest thumping and insolence... all bark no bite..... and you guys fall for it....everytime...

The APA has no game in DC. Recall the ALPA pilots picketed the TSA and got the Administrator out into the rain to discuss the issue....

ALPA has been working on crewpass... and it is in the operational test phase... What is the APA doing? Anyone can talk tough in a press release.....

CrewPASS leverages the underlying CASS architecture and introduces a state-of-the-art fingerprint biometric capability. Combining these two technologies provides the higher level of security necessary to enable expedited clearance for crewmembers. The CrewPASS concept was first conceived and promoted to the TSA by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA). ALPA continues to provide the grassroots support necessary to move the program forward. An existing demonstration program for pilots, including a biometric capability since May 2009, is operating at the following airports:

• Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport (BWI) – Concourse C and D
• Pittsburgh International Airport (PIT)
• Columbia Metropolitan Airport (CAE)

Participating flight crewmembers will still be able to use these locations without biometrics for an extended period of time. Enrollment will be required in the future and ARINC will provide updates on all significant dates. Flight attendants are to be added to CrewPASS at a future date.

 

[JohnQ]

ALPA has been working on crewpass... and it is in the operational test phase...

Really? Where is your evidence. ALPA has "been working" on CrewPass for 8 years now? How many more years of degradation do we have to endure while ALPA continues to "work on" CrewPass? I'm no ALPA-basher, but ALPA National has spent about 4-5 too many years toeing the "trust us, we know better than you so shut up" line. For once I would like to see some piss and vinegar in an ALPA policy and press release instead of the endless pablum that seems to define it these days.

Yes I know all the responses: "Anger is not a negotiating strategy, we really are making great progress behind the scenes, etc." Most of the time I actually accept that. I hope you understand why most pilots' patience has worn beyond thin on this issue.

What is the APA doing? Anyone can talk tough in a press release.....

APA is great at putting out pointless tough-guy press releases. However in this instance I am glad to see it. I will be following the day-to-day reality beyond the press release to see if it amounts to anything.

 

[densoo]

ALPA has been working on crewpass... and it is in the operational test phase... What is the APA doing? Anyone can talk tough in a press release.....

ALPA has now dropped the issue. It is over. See post #15 on this thread. That's their statement.

-- they developed

-- the TSA tested it

-- the TSA has approved it

-- ALPA is "urging" carriers to adopt it, like carriers take their orders from ALPA

-- now it sits on the shelf until further notice

It's done.

 

[jonjuan]

Concern about cosmic radiation exposure *is* valid...but I think how many Diet Cokes or cheeseburgers the average pilot consumes will be a FAR larger factor in their risk for health issues and/or cancer than the amount of radiation one gets while flying.

BINGO-Aspartame and red meat will do far more damage than radiation at altitude.

 

[densoo]

Getting some traction?

Dallas News picks up the story. Pretty much a rehash, but in the public sphere now. This is how CrewPass will come to be, if it ever does--when the public is fed up with pilots jumping the first class, handicapped, and elderly/handicapped security line--and the airline is shamed into paying for it when they realize the negative publicity from this starts to eat away at the positive publicity created by their advertising budget.

----------------

Allied Pilots Association president Dave Bates is suggesting that American Airlines pilots go through a pat-down search by Transportation Security Administration personnel rather undergo the repeated radiation from the "advanced imaging technology" body scanners used at many airports.

That doesn't mean he likes the pat-downs, which can include hand-sliding over the groin and buttocks.

"There is absolutely no denying that the enhanced pat-down is a demeaning experience," Bates told members in a message Monday.
"In my view, it is unacceptable to submit to one in public while wearing the uniform of a professional airline pilot. I recommend that all pilots insist that such screening is performed in an out-of-view area to protect their privacy and dignity," he wrote.

He wants TSA to come up with a way to let pilots avoid the same high-intensity searches that the public endures at TSA checkpoints.

"While I'm sure that each of us recognizes that the threats to our lives are real, the practice of airport security screening of airline pilots has spun out of control and does nothing to improve national security," Bates wrote.

"It's long past time that policymakers take the steps necessary to exempt commercial pilots from airport security screening and grant designated pilot access to SIDA utilizing either Crew Pass or biometric identification."
Keep reading for the entire Bates message.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/11/apa-president-advises-against.html

 

[BeCareful!]

I'm really surprised the APA is condoning pat downs, even if done private. I say "no way." Unacceptable. You're either going to let my fly the plane or not, and truthfully, I don't care one way or the other. My employer might, but not me. In any case, it matters not what any of us have hiding on our persons, because we are locked in the cockpit anyway. This is all just stupid eyewash.

 

[mamba20]

ALPA can suck it. Worthless and a total waste of my money. I'm actually exploring how to opt out of ALPA. I'd rather my money went to a charity or some entity that won't waste it like ALPA does.

 

[pilotyip]

Everyone in the industry should get their groups to adopt this standard and if necessary shut down the airline industry for a day to illustrate the absurdity of the TSA procedures for flight crewmembers that are in CASS.

 

[Midge]

Everyone in the industry should get their groups to adopt this standard and if necessary shut down the airline industry for a day to illustrate the absurdity of the TSA procedures for flight crewmembers that are in CASS.

Somehow I detect sarcasm in the above post, but I just can't pin point it. Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Saabslime]

Everyone in the industry should get their groups to adopt this standard and if necessary shut down the airline industry for a day to illustrate the absurdity of the TSA procedures for flight crewmembers that are in CASS.

The only way we (the public) are going to get these things out of our airports is a concerted effort to have EVERYONE opt out.

Stage an "opt out" day for those traveling on one of the busiest days of the year (close to Thanksgiving or Christmas) and watch the chaos ensue. You'll have the ATA screaming so loud in Washington that maybe they'll finally get the picture that we don't want or need them to make air travel safe.

 

[Dizel8]

I disagree, we do indeed need the TSA and the ATA to make air travel as safe as it can be, but subjecting Flight Crews to pat downs and AIT won't do anything to further that goal.

It's eyewash for the masses, particularly since so many unscreened people have access to the planes

 

[acpilot]

I'd take a Cessna 120 and 50 gal of 100LL over this BS any day.

 

[densoo]

It's eyewash for the masses, particularly since so many unscreened people have access to the planes

I'm not sure it is eyewash so much as there is no where else we can go. The TSA has made provisions for alternate screening for pilots other than the 100% bag-check line. They have been quite reasonable with this I think. There is another way (as Yoda said).

In fact, there are several airports that have implemented alternate screening with great success because the airport or the airline wanted to do it and followed all the proper protocols. As always it comes down to money, though.

Why should they do it if there is nothing to be gained--by them. If the pilots are getting to the planes on time and the passengers aren't complaining, it doesn't even register with them as something that needs to be done.

If the planes don't push on time or the public gets tired of this nonsense of us jumping in front of them, only then will they even look up from the balance sheet to see what the fuss is about.

 

[Dizel8]

Densoo,

Yes, there is another way, but even though it was mandated by Congress, airlines keeps dragging their feet on the issue. Nor do I see the people in charge, DHS, pushing the issue.

So, we are stuck with what we got, untill a change is forced. However, untill that change happens, Aircrews should never be required to walk through the AIT.

 

[Jammin]

I never do the AIT, it makes them mad but oh well !!!

 

[Grandpa +65]

TSA does not even do through background checks on their own employees. I see the crime rate for rape's going up because of the fact that the images are x-rated. Do I want someone looking at my wife or child in that matter? No of course not! Not to mention that the TSA Employees have no research concerning how the radiation from the x-ray will affect in later years. TSA should stand for the following: Transportation Sexual Abuse

 

[Jetjockey]

TSA does not even do through background checks on their own employees.

Things that make you go hmmmm. Who's protecting us from the "protectors"???

CREW PASS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pilotyip]

Somehow I detect sarcasm in the above post, but I just can't pin point it. Hmmmmmmmmm.

No sarcasm intended, I just have a personal problem when dealing with political correctness stupidity and feel it has to be made an issue. There are proven methods to screen passengers for instance like Israel, but we won’t do that because it might be profiling and might offend someone. No maybe everyone goes naked one day to make a point?

 

[Mike man]

ALPA will have to figure out how to profit from this before they "get on board"

 

[Tweaker]

ALPA can suck it. Worthless and a total waste of my money. I'm actually exploring how to opt out of ALPA. I'd rather my money went to a charity or some entity that won't waste it like ALPA does.

There is no way to do so. You will still pay for services rendered that will be a sum equal to or nearly so what you would normally pay in dues. The only result will be a lack of ability to participate in elections and you will lose all representation and other services. It ain't a good answer, but it is accurate.

 

[densoo]

Largest union on board.

Where's ALPA? Put out the word! Don't go through the machine--and request the pat-down in private.

Steve Watson
Infowars.com
November 8, 2010

The largest independent union of airline pilots in the world is urging its members to boycott body imaging machines currently being rolled out in airports all over the globe, citing dangers of excessive exposure to harmful levels of radiation during the screening process.

http://www.infowars.com/worlds-pilo...canners-over-radiation-danger-privacy-breach/

 

[KigAir]

Being a private pilot, I am confused as to the threat that the TSA thinks a pilot flying a plane with passengers poses to the safety of those passengers. Are they worried that an aircrew member will carry something onto the plane that can be used to overpower the other flight crew members such as box cutters, mace or tasers? Or are they worried that somebody posing as a flight crew member will bring box cutters on board an aircraft?

 

[waverunner]

Ya got me! The whole thing is a friggin' joke. I refuse to go through the new backscatter machines. TSA gives me an early morning rubdown. They take my nail clippers away. I then go to the airplane and sit down and prep everything and look for the required cockpit items that includes a CRASH AXE! OMG - I could quickly kill, maime, and dismember humans with the thing. Now, imagine if I showed up at TSA security with an axe in my bag. They would probably have me ushered out in handcuffs. It's all a very warped system they have.

 

[densoo]

Being a private pilot, I am confused as to the threat that the TSA thinks a pilot flying a plane with passengers poses to the safety of those passengers. Are they worried that an aircrew member will carry something onto the plane that can be used to overpower the other flight crew members such as box cutters, mace or tasers? Or are they worried that somebody posing as a flight crew member will bring box cutters on board an aircraft?

The TSA has been happy to provide other means for pilots, but the airlines don't want to pay for it.

 

[CFIT]

More APA bravado, chest thumping and insolence... all bark no bite..... and you guys fall for it....everytime...

The APA has no game in DC. Recall the ALPA pilots picketed the TSA and got the Administrator out into the rain to discuss the issue....

ALPA has been working on crewpass... and it is in the operational test phase... What is the APA doing? Anyone can talk tough in a press release.....

Like alpo has done anything, they could have made a statement like the APA, but no they are too in bed with the TSA.

Alpo should of came out with the statement first, there is no reason not to.

 

[CA1900]

Are they worried that an aircrew member will carry something onto the plane that can be used to overpower the other flight crew members...

Give me a Qdoba breakfast burrito and two hours -- I'll definitely be able to overpower the other crewmember. :laugh:

 

[densoo]

Alpo should of came out with the statement first, there is no reason not to.

They did, and here it is. It basically says CrewPass was developed, tested, and approved. And now it will sit on the shelf for lack of funds. They are "looking to the future" rather than take care of the pilots it represents now.

October 22, 2010 - The Air Line Pilots Association Int’l. (ALPA) fully supports effective airline passenger security screening. In fact, ALPA played a key role in influencing the federal government to mandate passenger screening in the early 1970s.

Recently, the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) as a security screening tool has raised privacy and other concerns in North America and around the world. ALPA acknowledges the reservations and concerns that some have expressed about the use of AIT. Countering these issues, however, is the fact that AIT can provide a significantly greater level of security than do walk-through metal detectors to keep improvised explosive devices and other threat objects off of airline aircraft.

Looking to the future, ALPA is advocating for the development of a trust-based security system that will focus on determining whether an individual possesses hostile intent using threat-object detection technology as a supplement to the screening process. Once implemented, this system will help reduce the need for use of invasive screening methods for the vast majority of the traveling public.

Responding to a Congressional mandate, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has already endorsed one component of a threat-based security system by approving implementation of the ALPA-conceived Crew Personnel Advanced Screening System (CrewPASS). CrewPASS, a dedicated security screening process for flight crewmembers, validates the identity and confirms the employment status of crewmembers in real time. ALPA has obtained the required approval from TSA for nationwide CrewPASS implementation; the Association is urging each carrier to make this system available for use of their flight crewmembers.

http://www.alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/Pre...g_10-22-10.htm

 

[N1atEcon]

Being a private pilot, I am confused as to the threat that the TSA thinks a pilot flying a plane with passengers poses to the safety of those passengers. Are they worried that an aircrew member will carry something onto the plane that can be used to overpower the other flight crew members such as box cutters, mace or tasers? Or are they worried that somebody posing as a flight crew member will bring box cutters on board an aircraft?

They will not let us through with a leatherman tool because it could be used as dangerous weapon. However all of our cockpits have a item that could do way more harm to another person than a utility tool. Here is another anecdote of the stupidity: There was an FFDO who had just purchased coffee. The TSA agent asked him to throw it away while he was signing in as an FFDO. Finally, when the supervisor got involved and put a muzzle on the dip$hit agent the pilot, with his gun, and coffee went to work.