APA Proposal to AMR Released

[3HOLER]

Publishers - once again you are blabbing about stuff wich you obviously don't have a freakin' clue about and as usual, you continue to look like an idiot. You are obviously an amateur and you need to keep you conversations with your "buddies" on the golf course to yourself because you are a dork and no one wants to listen to your crap! So shut the hell up unless you can contribute something meaningful to the thread. And have a nice day.

 

[dualrated]

Golly! I didn't know I was worked up. Maybe I should relax and spend some time out on the links with my AA pilot buddies who also have no idea what you are talking about! Let's see...four of us, plus you...that makes at least five people who have no idea what you are talking about.

Again, if you are talking about the opener in August of 2001, when Jeff Brundage tried to talk us into volunteering for "Baseball-Style Arbitration" in exchange for DAL +1% and no other details on scope or work rules, you are still way off. If you are talking about the post-sickout contract extension TA that was rejected, that didn't resemble UAL's contract either. Way, way off.

If you think this is how these guys think, good luck to you.

If you think CEO's don't make "business" decisions with an eye toward their own stock holdings, you haven't been watching the news in the past year or so.

In the end, who is right will be evident.

For the record, I haven't claimed to be right. I am neither optimistic nor pessimistic about APA's chances for getting the carriers combined. In fact, my lack of confidence in AMR's motives is what compelled you to chime in with your opinion (which was stated as fact)

This thread has crept far away from it's original subject, and I get to go fly for the next few days, so I'll let someone else wrap up Publisher and put him under the tree.

Merry Christmas to all...

 

[FEDUPPILOT]

Lets hope for the best and expect the worse! I hope santa leaves good news under the tree this year! We sure could use some! HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!!!

 

[Draginass]

Maybe everyone should wait until the negotiators iron out something that they think is presentable to both groups, then make judgements. Getting the blood up this early isn't useful. I think an agreement is possible between AA and AE pilots, but getting AMR on board is the hard part.

"Some AA pilots with whom I have exchanged comments tell me that 85% of the Eagle pilots support this proposal."

Given the early stage of the negotiations, I doubt if even 50% of AE pilots even know any details of anything, much less voice support for it. I dare say that a vast majority support the concept of integrating the pilots groups . . . . but then the devil is always in the details. They need to negotiate with their own self-interests at heart, just as the APA will.

 

[Publishers]

3holer

Once again someone has raised the intelligence quotia of this fine board.

Your right, the 30 years I have spent in aviation give me no voice in this when faced with the logic and presentation of professionals like you who resort to name calling and tell people to get off the board if they do not agree.

If I was wrong and it was DAL +1% and not UAL, I apologize. Nevertheless, there were offers that look good in hindsight.

Yes I think CEO's pay attention to the stock price. In fact, I can't think of any CEO of a public company that does not as that is what the shareholders pay him for.

It is sort of like a pilot. The passengers usually come out all right if the pilot and the aircraft come out all right. The pilot takes care of himself and his aircraft.

It is amazing how quick the employees of US saw the light and approved massive changes when faced with leadership that could not care less if the airline existed or was liquidated.

My position is that this proposal and anything like it is dead on arrival.

 

[skippy22]

EAGLE too

I am furloughed from eagle. I don't think its fair to allow all AA pilots to go back before AE. A deal where 1 eagle for every 2 AA I think would be fair. I hope ALPA doesn't let AE furloughs get burned. Also if APA and ALPA did agree to give AA first rights then all AE furloughs should get a guarateed furlough recall rights no matter of time period.

 

[jetexas]

". Company could hire into either commuter supplement or mainline vacancies."

This would pretty much assure that most Eagle pilots would remain Eagle pilots/"commuter supplement pilots" but with AA seniority numbers.

There's a lot of work to be done on this potential merge by all sides. That is, if Carty and friends even decide to pursue this idea beyond the proposal stage.

 

[Tim47SIP]

70 Seaters?

Just curious, doesn't AE have 70 seaters? If so, there is no mention of them in the proposal. If not, is this proposal restricting AE pilots from flying anything larger than a 50 seater? Although I do not work for Eagle, I have many freinds who do and personally this proposal is awfully one sided. It really does not gaurantee that any Eagle guys will see the mainline. Maybe two Eagle guys for every one off the street new hire once all of the mainline guys have been recalled would be a workable agreement.

For those that are looking for support from ALPA, I would not count on it. The only reason this proposal has gotten as far as it has is that it was a non ALPA union to sponsor it as it goes completely against ALPA's desire to keep mainline protected at the regionals expense (of corse in the current form, that is probably debatable). Yes, that is not happening at DCI and other growing regionals, but ALPA,s poor vision of the future and manipulative tacticts have caused the whole industry to spin away from ALPA,s intended results. In other words, their plan simply backfired. Aditionally, ALPA is trying to woo the APA into ALPA, so not much will be done to protect the Eagle guys.

As a whole, I think the proposal is greatly overdue and has a lot of merrit. If this had been ALPA's policy several years ago, very few, if any, mainline or regional guys would be furloughed.

 

[English]

(This post is by CaptRob, who couldn't sign in under his own name.)

The proposal does mention the 70-seaters. They go to AA as soon as the agreement is signed.

This proposal seems to have some good ideas but also some very bad ones, from an Eagle Saab Captains' point of view. (The only one I have...)

I don't know where the 85% of Eagle pilots polled favor the proposal came from. I can guarantee you most got hot under the collar when they read it, and not in a very supportive fashion. Most seem to agree it's a good start, but the devil is in the details, and this proposal has a lot of details.

There are deal breakers in the proposal as it stands now. Fortunatly, most agreements that are negotiated at AMR don't resemble the openers much at all. I think it would have been much better for APA to have included Eagle's MEC and Negotiating Committee in their proposal, especially after the Unity March. It would have told the company that the labor groups are, in fact, working together for the common good and have a plan that will be implemented quickly, without having to wait to go back after APA finishes with AA management, and negotiate over again with ALPA/AE.

Eagle pilots have been treated with contempt by both the company and APA over the years. About half have been here long enough to remember the times when APA refused to accept dead-head legs on Eagle turbo-props, saying they were unsafe. Not to mention the jump-seat mess that followed. Jim Sovich still has followers at APA and he is not thought of favorably at Eagle. Mr. Costello has his own legacy at the company, along with Mr. Bacon and Mr. Criner. Their interpretations of the contract has left many of us wondering what is on the menu at the management cafeteria.

Now, Captain Darrah has the chance to change the face of commercial aviation in this country. If he can work with Carty and Herb Mark, the Eagle MEC Chairman, and the three of them can iron out an agreement, think of the possibilities. An AA that is much larger than before with a mechanism for positive growth in all markets, not to mentiojn the possibility for some good relations with labor.

Is this too utopian to happen?

 

[laxembfo]

APA and AMR

At least they are still talking, if AMR said no, then the talks would of ended by now and the ASM cap would of gone back up.

I think EAGLE needs to buy CHQ and TSA and tack them to the bottom of our list. Give them date of hire. I would final get my upgrade on the jet..

 

[English]

Re: APA and AMR

(This post is by CaptRob, who couldn't sign on under his own name.)

I think EAGLE needs to buy CHQ and TSA and tack them to the bottom of our list. Give them date of hire. I would final get my upgrade on the jet.. [/B]

Take your pick, staple or date of hire. You can't give them both.

Nothing personal, but I think that would be a mistake. We have planes parked in the desert, pilots on furlough and routes flown by outsourced companies in what were our airplanes. I want all the flying, but I don't think we need all the people.

Just a thought. And no, this isn't a flame on the CHQ and TSA people.

 

[AAflyer]

Publishers,

I think the reason many think you are an idiot is the WAY you pander your thoughts. Kind of like the media, all is fact in your eyes, we are merely dumb line pilots, I am not going to mention the number over here with law degrees, MBAs etc.

If you would use words like "I think" or "let me speculate" you would probably have a more favorable response.

If you are truly in publishing and some past management position, take that 30 years of experience and put it to GOOD use, not fuel a fire, or state opinion as fact, it truly destroys your credability.Would you ever publish facts in an article were the source was some line guy you teed off with?

As to the proposal we turned down that mirrored UAL, I hate to add my name to the list, but your are wrong again.
I fly for American, I belong to APA, I saw the proposal, then researched it to make an informed decision. Where did you get your ino from?

To all others at AA and Eagle,

Let's not freak out about what has been said. Review the facts;

1.AMR and APA are discussing a proposal.

2.Details have not been released.

3.There is long way to go, if AMR even says yes.

I think it is important that eagle guys and gals express any concerns over what they might think will happen. Make sure your MEC speaks with APA. I truly believe a deal can be worked out that benefits all, from furloughed EGL, to SF-340 Capt, to furloughed AA.

What I would hate to see at this juncture is ill will towards the other side.Comments like "that is why they are smiling at us in the hall way", and respective commments from mainline. Take a look at the distrust and anger that is displayed at DAL and DCI. That is something not to be proud (reagrdless of who feels in the right), and something we do not need over here.

AAflyer

P.S> God forbid we acted the same way in the cockpit when emergencies occur.

 

[350DRIVER]

Publishers,

I have to second the comments made by AAflyer... I usually tend to stay clear of these kinds of threads that are not pertinent to my type of flying, however this thread caught my eye and I just could not resist. What makes me have to laugh and wonder about your so-called "experience" within the industry is the manner in which you post not to mention the words and language that you so choose to use. I see nothing more than "ignorance" and "outrageous" dumb founded opinions in your posts. ( don't take this personally) Really, where in the world do you come up with some of this junk and ridiculous opinions from..?? ( I am just curious).. - What makes you any more well versed than anyone else. ???

I would highly suggest that you "change" the language and your wording when you post since you are probably not goin to gain any "interest" from most posters when they are reading your "work".-


wake up pub

3 5 0

ps.>> How often do you "golf" with these buddies?