AOPA article; "The glory days are over"

[Rez O. Lewshun]

See my note in what are the regionals doing wrong.

The bottom line is when VLJ's start coming on line, people are going to say, I could take off my shoes, stand in line for 2 hours, deal with people who don't give a crap, or I can sign up for a fractional VLJ, and say to heck with the airlines.
I'm betting, and so is an industry, that lots of people will say that, and then the big airlines are going to be a giant sucking sound. Kind of like Freddie Laker, and Laker Express.

I agree... In addition, if the pilots are not careful and "management" is successful, the definition of these VLJ's will not be "professional".

The VLJ pilots will be the taxi cab caliber pilots.......

 

[pilotyip]

If management is successful, pilots have jobs.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If management is successful, pilots have jobs.

True.... McDonalds is sucessful and they have lots of jobs to offer.... but alot less careers...

 

[pilotyip]

Women? Management?

Management are like women, can't live with'em, can't live without'em. Divorces are follwed by more marriages. BTW the glory days are not gone, this is still a fantastic carrer where else can a guy without a college degree school grad have a shot at making $100K/yr doing something he likes. Not many places I know of.

 

[Goose Egg]

He closes with:

"I frequently am asked for advice about becoming an airline pilot. The best advice I can offer those determined to endure the rigorous hardships often required is to simultaneously develop a sideline vocation that can be used in case of emergency. A pilot should never get into a position that is totally dependent on income from an airline... Does the end justify the means? Does becoming a captain for a major airline justify all that must be endured to get there? Perhaps, but surviving long enough to get there is the problem."

I think Mr. Schiff has a good point. In the modern airline industry, "it's a race to the bottom," "the glory days are over..." and so on and so forth ad nauseum. The job is not like it was for him, and it never will be again. We know. We knew it a long time ago.

The rather glaring point that Barry fails to acknowledge is that not all of us consider a job at a major the pinnacle of success. In fact, he is saying in essence, "The only job worth having in aviation is being a major airline captain, and that's extremely difficult to accomplish nowadays. So you youthful, naive CFI's out there might as well just forget about aviation entirely."

I'm sorry if I don't agree. Flying big jets for a living was a childhood dream of mine, as I'm sure it was many, and really it was the reason why I got started in aviation. However, that has been off my radar screen for some time now, and I honestly don't think of it much. What, exactly, I'm going to do instead remains to be seen, but I refuse to let inflexibility and a low tolerance for ambiguity derail what otherwise could have been a successful career.

And the fact of the matter that in the article Barry blames all of his troubles on deregulation shows he's really in a reactive, "victim" mentality. It doesn't reflect well.

-Goose

 

[rjcap]

You may remember another article by Schiff where his son, a new hire at TWA, was allowed to fly with him on his last trip before retirment. It was an excellent article about a family that pursued aviation.

Ironic how the tables have turned.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

BTW the glory days are not gone, this is still a fantastic carrer where else can a guy without a college degree school grad have a shot at making $100K/yr doing something he likes. Not many places I know of.

The glory days ARE gone. Deal with it.

CE

 

[tomgoodman]

Sam Clemens, Pilot

Flying big jets for a living was a childhood dream of mine, as I'm sure it was many, and really it was the reason why I got started in aviation.
-Goose

Goose,

At the end of your post, you quote Mark Twain. Here's another from him:

"The Pilot thinks of nothing but the River, and his pride in his profession surpasses that of kings."

Sam Clemens achieved his dream of becoming a Mississippi River Pilot, and he was good at it, being hired for a succession of larger and larger riverboats. The Civil War shut down the river, so he traveled west and tried his hand at writing, under the pen name "Mark Twain".

Today, he might well dream of and succeed at flying airplanes; and if he had to leave that career, he wouldn't think his time had been wasted.

 

[rtmcfi]

Why didn't Paul apply at USA Jet in 2002, he would be making about $65K right now on his way to $100K, and be gone from home about 5.5 days per month average?

Perhaps he had no desire to be a dog on a leash, living in KYIP.....

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

My uncle is a radiologist and has seen his pay cut in half.
Many prefessions have gone thru this.

 

[pilotyip]

rtm, and you are not a leash when your company gives you a reserve line with 11 days off?

 

[LAFrequentflyer]

Goose,

At the end of your post, you quote Mark Twain. Here's another from him:

"The Pilot thinks of nothing but the River, and his pride in his profession surpasses that of kings."

Sam Clemens achieved his dream of becoming a Mississippi River Pilot, and he was good at it, being hired for a succession of larger and larger riverboats. The Civil War shut down the river, so he traveled west and tried his hand at writing, under the pen name "Mark Twain".

Today, he might well dream of and succeed at flying airplanes; and if he had to leave that career, he wouldn't think his time had been wasted.

Excellent post...Thanks!

-LAFF

 

[727C47]

You have to have a passion for this profession to put up with its vicissitudes, the dues paying, et al. The payoff is that left seat, but it is a tough row to hoe to get there. The beauty,the joys,and the challenges, make it worthwhile. God bless,and Godspeed those who persevere in pursuit of this dream.

 

[Petrov]

You have to have a passion for this profession to put up with its vicissitudes, the dues paying, et al. The payoff is that left seat, but it is a tough row to hoe to get there. The beauty,the joys,and the challenges, make it worthwhile. God bless,and Godspeed those who persevere in pursuit of this dream.

Thank You!

 

[imacdog]

rtm, and you are not a leash when your company gives you a reserve line with 11 days off?

Certainly not a 30 minute call-out time, on reserve 24 hours a day....

 

[BenderGonzales]

I think Barry was simply lamenting the fact that he encouraged his children to join a profession where they were unable to reach the same level of success that he reached.

I disagree with the poster who stated that the "goal was the left seat". The left seat of what? and for what payrate? and with what lifestyle? At the end of the day this is still a job folks. The purpose of a job is to make money to support your family.

The goal -- if anyone needs remindining -- is max pay, max days off, and hopefully some kind of retirement.

 

[sky37d]

I think Barry was simply lamenting the fact that he encouraged his children to join a profession where they were unable to reach the same level of success that he reached.


The goal -- if anyone needs remindining -- is max pay, max days off, and hopefully some kind of retirement.

Unfortunately, the retirement is going by the wayside.

I would think that with the changes to Pensions, that it would be an argument to permit pilots to fly past age 60.

 

[Ready2Fly]

Unfortunately, the retirement is going by the wayside.

I would think that with the changes to Pensions, that it would be an argument to permit pilots to fly past age 60.

Why penalize pilots that work for successful companies with secure pensions who want to retire and enjoy their life at 60 or even earlier? Those legacy guys that are now broke don't get any sympathy from me for not being able to manage their finances well enough to be able to retire at 60. For years ALPA was all for age 60 because they said it was a safety issue. Now with their pensions gone, suddenly it's now safe for them to fly past 60! F'ing hippocrites, that's what they are!

 

[pilotyip]

Not age 60 again

Golly not another age 60 thread. This rule had nothing to do with safety. Age 60 was forced on the pilots back in 1958. ALPA was still fighting to get it repealed up until about 1970. It was a deal between two W.W.II USAF General buddies, AAL's C.R. Smith and Pete Quesada (sp.?) the first head of the FAA. It was to get rid of high paid pilots at the top of AAL the seniority list. It was done in the name of safety, because who can be against safety. It is like motherhood and patriotism. If those with fantastic pensions want to retire at age 60, then by all means write it into your contract and let the rest of the world work towards a later retirement

 

[jumppilot]

The above quote, taken as advice, is concerning.

Regrettably, ALPA leadership (Duane Worthless) has been a total failure. Scope was not held and Regional airlines have now become the outsourced standard. There is no power to strike at this time in this situation which means there is no power in a union.

I agree 100%. I'm one of those "2 year upgrades" who is on track to make $65,000 this year, however, that is about the most I'll be able to make at my current carrier. I'm lucky to be able to make that at 24, but you know what? This is all I have to look forward to.

I have a great job for a "stable" company but I would be glad to fly a turboprop for the next 3 years...If it meant I had a stable, major airline carrer to look forward to. In all honesty, those flying turboprops now are behind the curve. A far cry from the pre-9/11 days.

ALPA droped the ball while I was still in high school, and we are all paying the price.

My engineering friend from college are making a lot more than me, but sitting in a cubicle these days makes more money than what we do. But I digress, I guess we don't have the same responsibility.