AOPA article; "The glory days are over"

[mcjohn]

On another note. This ALPA stuff totally freaks me out and I find the details of the article mentioned very disturbing/interesting. I have no desire to fly for the airlines anymore. How in the world is all this stuff being ALLOWED to happen. Makes me sick. I don't know much, but common sense tells me that the two guys up front of a airliner carrying live human cargo should be paid well. HOW THE HELL ARE THEY NOT EVEN GETTING PAID LIVABLE WAGES?!

What does it tell you when you get rewarded for carrying boxes and punished for carrying humans? What is the world coming to?

 

[A Squared]

What does it tell you when you get rewarded for carrying boxes and punished for carrying humans?

Ummmm, that you should carry boxes?

 

[mcjohn]

Yeah, I've got that one figured out. Now let me ask this. Are the airline pilots in other countries having these same issues? If not, then.......well I don't even want to go there.
This airline issue is pathetic. I'm not one to insist that every airline pilot must make 6 figures or anything but I sense that the "real" reasons behind the horrible pay are bad ones that should be dealt with forcefully.
Over and over and over in my head:
HOW THE HELL ARE THEY NOT EVEN GETTING PAID LIVABLE WAGES AS F/Os!?
And the whole GIA thing......WTF?!! (I almost went there!) uke:

SERIOUS PROBLEM

 

[Hold West]

What does it tell you when you get rewarded for carrying boxes and punished for carrying humans? What is the world coming to?

People are willing to pay $15.95 to send an ounce of documents to New York overnight, but only $49 to fly their fat 300 pound butt the same route.

And the airlines cater to that!

 

[mcjohn]

O.K. this cheap ass "300 pound butt" is getting into the territory that I tried to steer clear of talking about above.
Back to the question then. Do the airline pilots in other countries have these same issues?

 

[mcjohn]

Screw my question. I'll just leave it at this:
http://www.clear-and-a-million.com/viewtopic.php?t=2758

 

[User998]

I think this should be required reading by all potential Flight Academy applicants who buy into the HR marketing of "Going from 0 to the airlines in a year!"

All the Academies have the same hype. If you want to fly for the airlines, the time to get in is NOW! What it should read is "Come spend $80,000+ with us, and we'll land you a First Officer regional job that pays $20,000 a year, and upgrade in as little as 5-10 years, where you'll then be making $50,000!!"

Sad thing is, people would still read it and sign up.

 

[sonicventury]

This amuses me. Paul was my FO on a couple trips at AirWis. When he told me who his dad was, I asked Paul if he ever kicked his dad in the ass for letting him get into this profession. Paul said his dad had tried to discourage him from pursuing it. I asked why Barry never expressed this in one of his articles, and Paul just shrugged his shoulders. Thanks for finally getting around to it Barry.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Scope was not held and Regional airlines have now become the outsourced standard. There is no power to strike at this time in this situation which means there is no power in a union.

The immediate problem: ALPA is in a denial phase instead of acting when the course is clear for long term security.

Amen - but why not stop erosion by allowing Regionals to have some brand scope too?

 

[smellthejeta]

This amuses me. Paul was my FO on a couple trips at AirWis. When he told me who his dad was, I asked Paul if he ever kicked his dad in the ass for letting him get into this profession. Paul said his dad had tried to discourage him from pursuing it. I asked why Barry never expressed this in one of his articles, and Paul just shrugged his shoulders. Thanks for finally getting around to it Barry.

The things it takes to get a year and half old lurker out of the woodwork

 

[cynic]

This decade is ruled by those with Shiny-Jet-Syndrome. It is an affliction not exclusive to aviation but to an entire GENERATION of young-people who demand instant gratification. They aren't willing to pay their dues. They want what they want, and they want it now.

Hopefully the children of the furloughees - Barry's grandchildren - will have a stronger work ethic. They are the profession's only hope.

Uhhh, actually ALPA is ruled by a bunch of old dudes that could give a ratts butt about the plight of the younger pilots. FYIGM!

Work ethic has little to do with it. It has mostly to do with deregulation, a lot to do with the declinign power of unions and a good bit to do with ALPAs complete failure to look out for everybody. Not just the few at the top of the list.

Thats not becuase kids today lack work ethic. They are working harder for less if anything.

 

[cynic]

Oh yeah. And click on a Users Name once with the left mouse button. Select 'View Public Profile' from the drop down list.

Then click Add EMB Skillz to your Ignore List

He's on my list, so is the crazy peak oil dude and one or two other morons.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/profile.php?do=removelist&userlist=ignore&u=24129

 

[acaTerry]

The above quote, taken as advice, is concerning.

Regrettably, ALPA leadership (Duane Worthless) has been a total failure. Scope was not held and Regional airlines have now become the outsourced standard. There is no power to strike at this time in this situation which means there is no power in a union.

The only place where there will be power in the future is in an airline like UPS because they have the POWER to strike effectively. A strike at UPS will be honored by all the Teamsters which means the drivers. A strike by the drivers means it will be honored by the pilots. That is power and that translates into $300K per year or more for captains.

Does anyone think a strike by ALPA pilots would be honored by anyone now days? Not a chance and that means ALPA captains pay is on the way down even more. ALPA pilots are as replaceable as the flight attendants.

What is anyone worth? The answer is only determined by the power of your position. Or in other words: You are worth what you can get.

Questions: Ask Mr. Worthless.

The immediate problem: ALPA is in a denial phase instead of acting when the course is clear for long term security.

I disagree totally. I recall at LEAST two very stern letters from Mr. Woerthless about lasers....

 

[A Squared]

Does anyone think a strike by ALPA pilots would be honored by anyone now days? Not a chance and that means ALPA captains pay is on the way down even more. ALPA pilots are as replaceable as the flight attendants.

And why would they? when was the last time ALPOA honored any strike but thier own? I seem to recall more than one strike by mechanics, flight attendents or baggage handlers which weren't honored by ALPA, isn't it a 2 way street? If you want somone else to to the tough thing, and go without pay for your fight, don't you have to be willing to do the same for them?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Regrettably, ALPA leadership (Duane Worthless) has been a total failure. Scope was not held and Regional airlines have now become the outsourced standard. There is no power to strike at this time in this situation which means there is no power in a union.

Recall the power to strike is made via the NMB. It cannot simply be done because a union wants or needs to... there is a process, so to simply sandbag ALPA is irresponsible and ill informed...

The only place where there will be power in the future is in an airline like UPS because they have the POWER to strike effectively. A strike at UPS will be honored by all the Teamsters which means the drivers. A strike by the drivers means it will be honored by the pilots. That is power and that translates into $300K per year or more for captains.

Why are the labor laws that allow UPS to stike easier than any other Airline?

Does anyone think a strike by ALPA pilots would be honored by anyone now days? Not a chance and that means ALPA captains pay is on the way down even more. ALPA pilots are as replaceable as the flight attendants.

Now days? Why don't you tell us about the good ol days. When was another strike successfully honored?

What is anyone worth? The answer is only determined by the power of your position. Or in other words: You are worth what you can get.

Questions: Ask Mr. Worthless.

The immediate problem: ALPA is in a denial phase instead of acting when the course is clear for long term security.

Acutally I'll ask you....

Where did you get your "Management/Labor/Gov't" relations education anyway? The resident crewroom expert? Some guy you flew with for a month? I mean, you must have come to this understanding somehow.... Are you self taught?