anything happening at chautauqua ??

[Cornelius]

Sorry Flywithruss, but soon as you said you didn't have any 121 experience, I quickly pushed the reply button. Then I read the rest of your post.

Why, well I spent the time to read this thread since I have several friends who work for CHQ and I was curious to see what is happening. I hope things are going well for them.

If you want to be in this industry, you got to suck it up and take the hits. Everbody was hurt by Osama, Eaglet, and we will remember it for the rest of our lives. Don't cry about why you didn't go to AE groundschoold because of Osama. I don't think I've seen that once since I've been on this board.

And another thing, if you haven't experienced something directly, then don't post it.

By the way, there are many things the active pilots can do for any pariticular airline to get their fellow brothas/sistas back on line. If I was on line and not furloughed then I would try to get my associates back in business.

C-ya.

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I had eight months with the company when I was terminated. Some of the pilots being recalled right now had three. The whole point here is not what the company originally did, but what they are not doing to rectify the situation. They are bringing back junior pilots that were trained in the jet, some of which did not even make it to IOE or Sim training. Why is the company doing this? They claim that it is to save training costs, but then they go and sponsor expensive uniform brass changes and company parties.

I have since left CHQ for another airline, but many of my terminated friends are still looking for work. With 1050 hours and no 121 experience, YOU have absolutely no right to tell these pilots to not to bitch.

 

[MartinFierro]

You do know that American Eagle provides service for Alaska Airlines and Delta Airlines?

Alaska Airlines flight #3265 LAX to MRY
Delta Airlines flight #6658 LAX to MRY
Alaska Airlines flight #3297 LAX to FAT
Delta Airlines flight #6607 LAX to PSP
Alaska Airlines flight #3464 LAX to SAN
Delta Airlines flight #6558 LAX to SAN
Also flights for Alaska Airlines into San Luis Obisbo and Santa Barbara.

All operated by American Eagle Saabs.

So why is it okay when you do it, (provide service to majors who have either a wholly owned or feeders all ready), and it's not okay when someone else does it?


Get REAL

There is a huge difference. One, to my knowledge, neither Horizon pilots nor ASA nor Comair are objecting to the codeshare in LAX that Eagle does. Two, and most importantly, PILOTS ARE NOT ON THE STREET AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THIS CODESHARE, UNLIKE YOUR CODESHARE WITH AA!!!!!!! You and the rest of American Connection, according to the last figures I read, are doing 17% of the flying allowed under the ASM cap! Eagle may have to furlough more pilots as a result, and the SJU and MIA operations may be sold, even as seats are ripped out of OUR aircraft to accomodate YOUR bulls$$it codeshare.

Oh yeah, BTW, the codeshare Eagle has in LAX, we don't operate those flights solely for Delta nor Alaska. They just slap their ##s on our flights. Unlike you guys who go so far as to paint your aircraft in our colors.

That said, let's drop the subject. Our 2 groups will not agree on this.

 

[flywithruss]

I knew it would happen ...

I'm not surprised I'm being flamed by everybody over my comments above. I don't mean to offend, and I apologize to those I may have angered by sharing my opinion. However, I do feel compelled to point out that we are all fighting, as a nation, to protect our God-given right to have an opinion, about anything.

Cornelius, I'm not whining about my lot in life, and if my post came off that way, I apologize. I was merely pointing out that I have been affected by all of this, just like the rest of us. I am doing my level best to suck it up and move on, build my career, and support our country. Besides, if I had gotten on at Eagle, I'd just be in the furlough line now anyway, making the same decisions, only probably being a lot more bitter about it!

As for those who say I have no right to an opinion because I haven't "been there", I don't buy it. I don't have to be furloughed to know it sucks. Something similar has happened to all of us ... I for one showed up at the flight school where I used to work to find out one day that the insurance was canceled, the airplanes were sold, and I was unemployed ... without warning.

To you guys sacked by CHQ, my sympathy ... I mean that. You got the screw-job of the century ... we may all hate furloughs, but at least they go by the contract. It seems to me your anger is best directed at the Teamsters ... the people you paid good money to represent you before the company. It seems pretty clear they didn't do too much for your dues dollar, eh?

My point in my post was only that the most productive thing we can do is move on. Set aside the unchangeable past as just that, and move forward. Accept that CHQ management is lying, backstabbing, two-faced, and opportunistic at the expense of their employees. If and when the pipeline reopens there, I won't apply ... at least not under the current management team. I just hope my friends working there aren't the next ones to get crapped on.

Of course, a lot of you disagree with me, and that's fine. I can think you are full of crap, but, as an American, I will take up arms and defend to the death your right to be full of crap! And you can think I'm just as full of it, but something tells me each and every one of you would be right beside me, weapon in hand, defending to the death my right to be full of crap, too.

After all, every one of us is here for the same reason ... we may take a lot of junk in this business, but it is still the most fun we've ever had earning a paycheck. And you can take that to the bank.

Tailwinds ....

R

 

[MetroSheriff]

There is a huge difference. One, to my knowledge, neither Horizon pilots nor ASA nor Comair are objecting to the codeshare in LAX that Eagle does. Two, and most importantly, PILOTS ARE NOT ON THE STREET AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THIS CODESHARE, UNLIKE YOUR CODESHARE WITH AA!!!!!!! You and the rest of American Connection, according to the last figures I read, are doing 17% of the flying allowed under the ASM cap! Eagle may have to furlough more pilots as a result, and the SJU and MIA operations may be sold, even as seats are ripped out of OUR aircraft to accomodate YOUR bulls$$it codeshare.

Oh yeah, BTW, the codeshare Eagle has in LAX, we don't operate those flights solely for Delta nor Alaska. They just slap their ##s on our flights. Unlike you guys who go so far as to paint your aircraft in our colors.

That said, let's drop the subject. Our 2 groups will not agree on this.

Martin, if you think that DCI (ASA/Comair etc) pilots don't object to Eagle codeshare in LAX, you are sadly mistaken. We are disgusted. The thought of a Delta system passenger riding on the competition is infuriating. However, I don't think you will see us bashing Eagle pilots the way all you AA feeders seem to like to do.

Fighting each other will get you NOWHERE. In fact mgt loves it. Seeing all the feeders fighting to be the first to sell there mother up the river for a few more RJs plays right into their hands. Can you spell WHIPSAW.

This codesharing cancer is going to be the downfall of this profession.

 

[MartinFierro]

OK, I stand corrected regarding DCI. My apologies.

The truth is is that at Eagle I don't think anyone (pilots) really cares (many may not know) about that codeshare agreement. If it were to stop tomorrow, no tears or fuss would be probably be made by pilots (although management would be mad). Why? Because Eagle would still operate those same flights to the same places, with the same aircraft, to feed big-brother. So, more power to you in your battle to end Eagle codeshare with Delta, etc. I for one don't want to stand in the way of that.

My point was that American Connection is costing Eagle pilots' jobs, mine included. It is infuriating.

However, I don't think you will see us bashing Eagle pilots the way all you AA feeders seem to like to do.

Fighting each other will get you NOWHERE. In fact mgt loves it. Seeing all the feeders fighting to be the first to sell there mother up the river for a few more RJs plays right into their hands. Can you spell WHIPSAW.

Whipsaw, yes, I am familiar with that unfortunately. AMR loves it. It is a problem, and one of the reasons we have a 16 year behemoth of a contract was to avoid it (consolidate the many Eagle seniority lists and companies into 1). It appears not to have work, as there are cropping up more feeders to AA. And I'm sorry, but none of you DCI pilots have been furloughed, correct? None of you are still on the street because of Delta outsourcing feed, correct? In fact even with your problems of outsourcing, to ACA, SkyWest, include Eagle if you want to, you are still expanding, correct? Hiring still? That's great. Lucky for you. The situation at Eagle is not so rosey. So given OUR situation, I wouldn't think you would be as critical, negative, or bitter toward those doing other Delta feed.

It's a lot easier to be forgiving and pleasant when you still have a job, and none of your brothers and sisters at your company are on furlough either.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Martin,

I understand your points. I sympathize with the plight of ALL the AMR feeders. AMR is a shameless entity. From where I sit on the outside, my opinion is that Eagle is the lowest of the low. I have always said I would not work for Eagle, even if they DID pay their pilots (just kidding). Please note, that is not to say Eagle is a bad airline. I have many good friends working there and they are superb airman and great people. My point is that Eagle is a shameless and reprehensible EMPLOYER.

Therein lies a big issue. All the AMR Connection carriers feel they have right to the flying that have been doing for years. They feel that should not be left off of routes they have been flying for years. The Eagle folks feel that those routes were bought and paid for by AMR so the flying is rightfully theirs. Who is right and who is wrong.

No one. AMR owned some of the feed, TWA owned some of the feed, now AMR OWNS IT ALL. Not Eagle, not the AMR Connection. AMR. Feeders don't own jack, they don't have a right to jack. They get to fly what they can negotiate. This is a perfect example of why I think the regional pilots need to support and bargain for strong scope language in their contracts. It is more important than pay, retirement, work rules or any other contract language. Without it all the other stuff is worthless. As evidenced by the fisticuffs going on between Eagle and the other AMR feeders, mgt will give the feed away to the lowest bidder. All the parties involved will negotiate concessionary pay and work rules in an attempt to get AMR to throw them a bone. This exerts downward pressure on all other carriers at their level and makes upward pattern bargaining near impossible.

The only way around it is SCOPE. If Eagle had ironclad scope language that mgt couldn't pour tea through, they would have to use Eagle and Eagle only to feed the mainline. If they wanted the increase capacity that they want and need since the TWA buyout, they would be forced to BUY those feeders that they wish to use, merge them with Ealge, integrate the pilots and pay the going rate. As they stand now, everyone is so afraid they will get left out of the banquet, I am afraid you will see the concessions start soon. Playing right into mgts hands. Come on guys, AMR is the whipsaw master. Eagle is nothing more than a melting pot of former AMR whipsawed feeders.

I don't have all the answers, but perhaps all the MECs of the affected carriers could get together and try to come up with a united front in dealing with AMR together. With all the bickering going on, you've all list sight of the true enemy, AMR. They have got you right where they want you.

As I said, the code-sharing bu11$hit will be the death of us all...

 

[AAPilot]

Re: I knew it would happen ...

I'm not surprised I'm being flamed by everybody over my comments above. I don't mean to offend, and I apologize to those I may have angered by sharing my opinion. However, I do feel compelled to point out that we are all fighting, as a nation, to protect our God-given right to have an opinion, about anything.

Cornelius, I'm not whining about my lot in life, and if my post came off that way, I apologize. I was merely pointing out that I have been affected by all of this, just like the rest of us. I am doing my level best to suck it up and move on, build my career, and support our country. Besides, if I had gotten on at Eagle, I'd just be in the furlough line now anyway, making the same decisions, only probably being a lot more bitter about it!

As for those who say I have no right to an opinion because I haven't "been there", I don't buy it. I don't have to be furloughed to know it sucks. Something similar has happened to all of us ... I for one showed up at the flight school where I used to work to find out one day that the insurance was canceled, the airplanes were sold, and I was unemployed ... without warning.

To you guys sacked by CHQ, my sympathy ... I mean that. You got the screw-job of the century ... we may all hate furloughs, but at least they go by the contract. It seems to me your anger is best directed at the Teamsters ... the people you paid good money to represent you before the company. It seems pretty clear they didn't do too much for your dues dollar, eh?

My point in my post was only that the most productive thing we can do is move on. Set aside the unchangeable past as just that, and move forward. Accept that CHQ management is lying, backstabbing, two-faced, and opportunistic at the expense of their employees. If and when the pipeline reopens there, I won't apply ... at least not under the current management team. I just hope my friends working there aren't the next ones to get crapped on.

Of course, a lot of you disagree with me, and that's fine. I can think you are full of crap, but, as an American, I will take up arms and defend to the death your right to be full of crap! And you can think I'm just as full of it, but something tells me each and every one of you would be right beside me, weapon in hand, defending to the death my right to be full of crap, too.

After all, every one of us is here for the same reason ... we may take a lot of junk in this business, but it is still the most fun we've ever had earning a paycheck. And you can take that to the bank.

Tailwinds ....

R

Russ, Just an opinion to you. Having friends at both Eagle and CHQ I feel your experience and information level are inadequate to form a useful opinion. Yes I feel the CHQ guys did get screwed and yes there have been alot worse cases in the industry.
At your level, I assume right out of college, your goal would be to make connections and enjoy the fact you will be at a commuter level job soon at your age...As far as your experience level I am curious where you got your 1900 and DC9 time? Was it real time, sim time, or P51 time?
Yes I am picking on you, but when you have never spent day one at a 121 or 135 carrier then keep your opinion to yourself and start praying the airlines start hiring guys in the next FEW years because the competition is going to be huge once they do start hiring! Take care, AA