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anything happening at chautauqua ??
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Ronnie Dobbs
Master of His Domain
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There's all kinds of bickering and in-fighting happening right now on their messageboard.
Try the following:
http://www.v1rotate.com/portal/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=31
Try the following:
http://www.v1rotate.com/portal/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=31
Ronnie Dobbs
Master of His Domain
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They are calling back six of the terminated pilots, but not by using the old seniority list. All of the Saab pilots are getting a royal screwing from the company and their union (teamsters). The local union reps are in bed with the company and will do nothing to correct the problem. Most of the pilot group could care less either. If you are still looking for a job when CHQ starts hiring again, all I can say is stay clear of this sinking ship.
Despite the stupid comment above, CHQ is an exellent company to work for. I've been there 1 1/2 year and I love it.
Management was undoubtedly wrong when it decided to terminate 125 pilots out of seniority, but at least it seems that it's trying to repair the situation.
We feed a couple of financially unstable airlines, but the load factor is picking up quickly.
The company is expanding, although very slowly (we are getting rid of all the Saabs to go all jet).
You'll read some negative comments by idiotic people who don't have a clue, but CHQ is definately a top airline to work for.
If interested in working here, give Rosa Mosely a call (pilot hiring).
You'll love it.
Management was undoubtedly wrong when it decided to terminate 125 pilots out of seniority, but at least it seems that it's trying to repair the situation.
We feed a couple of financially unstable airlines, but the load factor is picking up quickly.
The company is expanding, although very slowly (we are getting rid of all the Saabs to go all jet).
You'll read some negative comments by idiotic people who don't have a clue, but CHQ is definately a top airline to work for.
If interested in working here, give Rosa Mosely a call (pilot hiring).
You'll love it.
Ronnie Dobbs
Master of His Domain
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Stupid comments? My previous comments are absolutely 100% true statements about what is happening right now at CHQ. I am one of the terminated Saab pilots! They are trying to repair the situation? Not even close! That would involve correctly recalling the terminated pilots in order of seniority, and they sure as hell are not doing it.
Are you smoking crack?
Yeah, give her a call and stab the backs of all of the pilots that were terminated on October 1st. Man, you're part of the reason why this whole mess is even being allowed to occur.
I think aceshigh said it best!
Are you smoking crack?
Yeah, give her a call and stab the backs of all of the pilots that were terminated on October 1st. Man, you're part of the reason why this whole mess is even being allowed to occur.
I think aceshigh said it best!
You state thay Chataqua is providing feed for some "financially Unstable Airlines". You call American Airlines financially unstable??? Don't worry. You guys will stop feed in STL as soon as we win our scope grievence and the REAL American feed can move in. Get REAL
to the termiated guys who posted above
1st: the fact that pilots were terminated means that they don't have seniority (how can the company call back out of seniority?)
2nd: nobody (repeat, nobody) in the pilot group sided with the company. we ALL refused (and most are still refusing) to work overtime (in fact, the company threatened us to take us to cout), and if you go to v1rotate you can read about our sentiments about the whole situation.
3rd: go to v1rotate and you can read about the reasoning behind the decision to terminate instead of furloghing. whether you want to accept it or not is up to you. the truth is that CHQ was really loosing a lot of money (remember that we're not Eagle or Comair).
4th: who, in my opinion, fault the most was the union. it hasen't done ANYTHING for the terminated guys.
Finally, i used to work for a company who terminated me (as well as 11 other colleagues) to then hire 12 pay-for-training pilots...i know how it feels. i never talked badly about the company. that's what happened, too bad i was one of the unfortunate (although it wroked out to be a blessing for me).
What i'm trying to say is that what CHQ did wasen't certainly right (the whole industry agree with you), but please move on.
the industry is slowly recovering. i'm positive that shorlty all the terminated guys will be back in the air.
i wish all of you luck.
1st: the fact that pilots were terminated means that they don't have seniority (how can the company call back out of seniority?)
2nd: nobody (repeat, nobody) in the pilot group sided with the company. we ALL refused (and most are still refusing) to work overtime (in fact, the company threatened us to take us to cout), and if you go to v1rotate you can read about our sentiments about the whole situation.
3rd: go to v1rotate and you can read about the reasoning behind the decision to terminate instead of furloghing. whether you want to accept it or not is up to you. the truth is that CHQ was really loosing a lot of money (remember that we're not Eagle or Comair).
4th: who, in my opinion, fault the most was the union. it hasen't done ANYTHING for the terminated guys.
Finally, i used to work for a company who terminated me (as well as 11 other colleagues) to then hire 12 pay-for-training pilots...i know how it feels. i never talked badly about the company. that's what happened, too bad i was one of the unfortunate (although it wroked out to be a blessing for me).
What i'm trying to say is that what CHQ did wasen't certainly right (the whole industry agree with you), but please move on.
the industry is slowly recovering. i'm positive that shorlty all the terminated guys will be back in the air.
i wish all of you luck.
flywithruss
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I'm gonna get flamed to death ...
Folks, I try not to get in the middle of these p*ssing contests, but I can't sit aside any longer.
I don't work for CHQ (or any other 121 carrier for that matter) but two good friends of mine are ERJ FOs who survived last year's carnage. They are both grateful to still have jobs (especially the one who bid off the Saab just in the nick of time), and I don't blame them. I think making the guys who are there because the company decided to foxtrot-uniform-charlie-kilo over certain members of the pilot group feel guilty is pretty low. My friends, and the other survivors, can't help the company's poor taste and indefensible actions. Some of you guys act like the entire pilot group, to a man, should walk out the door in some sort of protest. If they did, they'd all be just as unemployed, and CHQ wouldn't have the least bit of trouble replacing the whole **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** group in this day and age, now would they?
Look, I'm as sympathetic as anybody to the plight of the unemployed ... I'd be an Eaglet if it weren't for Osama-bin-hatin-us, but here I sit CFI-ing instead. I think CHQ screwed those guys, but I don't think the rest of the pilot group should feel guilty about it. I sure don't think they need to shoot themselves in the foot over it ... talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! The people on the board who were fired ... I'm very sorry. Your company screwed you over royally, and nobody deserves that. However, your fellow CHQ-ers worked as hard as you did to get where they are, and they don't deserve to be beaten over the head for something they had nothing to do with.
It is time for all of us to quit p*ssing in somebody else's pool ... I'm fresh out of chlorine. I for one will do everything I can to help myself and my fellow pilots achieve every success they can in our ultra-competitive industry, but I'm not going to sit around b*tching and moaning about every screw-over somebody's gotten. Being screwed in this business is like divorces and furloughs ... it sure as hell sucks, but it has happened to most of us at least once.
Tailwinds ....
R
Folks, I try not to get in the middle of these p*ssing contests, but I can't sit aside any longer.
I don't work for CHQ (or any other 121 carrier for that matter) but two good friends of mine are ERJ FOs who survived last year's carnage. They are both grateful to still have jobs (especially the one who bid off the Saab just in the nick of time), and I don't blame them. I think making the guys who are there because the company decided to foxtrot-uniform-charlie-kilo over certain members of the pilot group feel guilty is pretty low. My friends, and the other survivors, can't help the company's poor taste and indefensible actions. Some of you guys act like the entire pilot group, to a man, should walk out the door in some sort of protest. If they did, they'd all be just as unemployed, and CHQ wouldn't have the least bit of trouble replacing the whole **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** group in this day and age, now would they?
Look, I'm as sympathetic as anybody to the plight of the unemployed ... I'd be an Eaglet if it weren't for Osama-bin-hatin-us, but here I sit CFI-ing instead. I think CHQ screwed those guys, but I don't think the rest of the pilot group should feel guilty about it. I sure don't think they need to shoot themselves in the foot over it ... talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! The people on the board who were fired ... I'm very sorry. Your company screwed you over royally, and nobody deserves that. However, your fellow CHQ-ers worked as hard as you did to get where they are, and they don't deserve to be beaten over the head for something they had nothing to do with.
It is time for all of us to quit p*ssing in somebody else's pool ... I'm fresh out of chlorine. I for one will do everything I can to help myself and my fellow pilots achieve every success they can in our ultra-competitive industry, but I'm not going to sit around b*tching and moaning about every screw-over somebody's gotten. Being screwed in this business is like divorces and furloughs ... it sure as hell sucks, but it has happened to most of us at least once.
Tailwinds ....
R
Cornelius
Where's Pancakes House
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Sorry Flywithruss, but soon as you said you didn't have any 121 experience, I quickly pushed the reply button. Then I read the rest of your post.
Why, well I spent the time to read this thread since I have several friends who work for CHQ and I was curious to see what is happening. I hope things are going well for them.
If you want to be in this industry, you got to suck it up and take the hits. Everbody was hurt by Osama, Eaglet, and we will remember it for the rest of our lives. Don't cry about why you didn't go to AE groundschoold because of Osama. I don't think I've seen that once since I've been on this board.
And another thing, if you haven't experienced something directly, then don't post it.
By the way, there are many things the active pilots can do for any pariticular airline to get their fellow brothas/sistas back on line. If I was on line and not furloughed then I would try to get my associates back in business.
C-ya.
Why, well I spent the time to read this thread since I have several friends who work for CHQ and I was curious to see what is happening. I hope things are going well for them.
If you want to be in this industry, you got to suck it up and take the hits. Everbody was hurt by Osama, Eaglet, and we will remember it for the rest of our lives. Don't cry about why you didn't go to AE groundschoold because of Osama. I don't think I've seen that once since I've been on this board.
And another thing, if you haven't experienced something directly, then don't post it.
By the way, there are many things the active pilots can do for any pariticular airline to get their fellow brothas/sistas back on line. If I was on line and not furloughed then I would try to get my associates back in business.
C-ya.
Ronnie Dobbs
Master of His Domain
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I had eight months with the company when I was terminated. Some of the pilots being recalled right now had three. The whole point here is not what the company originally did, but what they are not doing to rectify the situation. They are bringing back junior pilots that were trained in the jet, some of which did not even make it to IOE or Sim training. Why is the company doing this? They claim that it is to save training costs, but then they go and sponsor expensive uniform brass changes and company parties.
I have since left CHQ for another airline, but many of my terminated friends are still looking for work. With 1050 hours and no 121 experience, YOU have absolutely no right to tell these pilots to not to bitch.
I have since left CHQ for another airline, but many of my terminated friends are still looking for work. With 1050 hours and no 121 experience, YOU have absolutely no right to tell these pilots to not to bitch.
MartinFierro
Flyin' Gaucho
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There is a huge difference. One, to my knowledge, neither Horizon pilots nor ASA nor Comair are objecting to the codeshare in LAX that Eagle does. Two, and most importantly, PILOTS ARE NOT ON THE STREET AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THIS CODESHARE, UNLIKE YOUR CODESHARE WITH AA!!!!!!! You and the rest of American Connection, according to the last figures I read, are doing 17% of the flying allowed under the ASM cap! Eagle may have to furlough more pilots as a result, and the SJU and MIA operations may be sold, even as seats are ripped out of OUR aircraft to accomodate YOUR bulls$$it codeshare.
Oh yeah, BTW, the codeshare Eagle has in LAX, we don't operate those flights solely for Delta nor Alaska. They just slap their ##s on our flights. Unlike you guys who go so far as to paint your aircraft in our colors.
That said, let's drop the subject. Our 2 groups will not agree on this.
flywithruss
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I knew it would happen ...
I'm not surprised I'm being flamed by everybody over my comments above. I don't mean to offend, and I apologize to those I may have angered by sharing my opinion. However, I do feel compelled to point out that we are all fighting, as a nation, to protect our God-given right to have an opinion, about anything.
Cornelius, I'm not whining about my lot in life, and if my post came off that way, I apologize. I was merely pointing out that I have been affected by all of this, just like the rest of us. I am doing my level best to suck it up and move on, build my career, and support our country. Besides, if I had gotten on at Eagle, I'd just be in the furlough line now anyway, making the same decisions, only probably being a lot more bitter about it!
As for those who say I have no right to an opinion because I haven't "been there", I don't buy it. I don't have to be furloughed to know it sucks. Something similar has happened to all of us ... I for one showed up at the flight school where I used to work to find out one day that the insurance was canceled, the airplanes were sold, and I was unemployed ... without warning.
To you guys sacked by CHQ, my sympathy ... I mean that. You got the screw-job of the century ... we may all hate furloughs, but at least they go by the contract. It seems to me your anger is best directed at the Teamsters ... the people you paid good money to represent you before the company. It seems pretty clear they didn't do too much for your dues dollar, eh?
My point in my post was only that the most productive thing we can do is move on. Set aside the unchangeable past as just that, and move forward. Accept that CHQ management is lying, backstabbing, two-faced, and opportunistic at the expense of their employees. If and when the pipeline reopens there, I won't apply ... at least not under the current management team. I just hope my friends working there aren't the next ones to get crapped on.
Of course, a lot of you disagree with me, and that's fine. I can think you are full of crap, but, as an American, I will take up arms and defend to the death your right to be full of crap! And you can think I'm just as full of it, but something tells me each and every one of you would be right beside me, weapon in hand, defending to the death my right to be full of crap, too.
After all, every one of us is here for the same reason ... we may take a lot of junk in this business, but it is still the most fun we've ever had earning a paycheck. And you can take that to the bank.
Tailwinds ....
R
I'm not surprised I'm being flamed by everybody over my comments above. I don't mean to offend, and I apologize to those I may have angered by sharing my opinion. However, I do feel compelled to point out that we are all fighting, as a nation, to protect our God-given right to have an opinion, about anything.
Cornelius, I'm not whining about my lot in life, and if my post came off that way, I apologize. I was merely pointing out that I have been affected by all of this, just like the rest of us. I am doing my level best to suck it up and move on, build my career, and support our country. Besides, if I had gotten on at Eagle, I'd just be in the furlough line now anyway, making the same decisions, only probably being a lot more bitter about it!
As for those who say I have no right to an opinion because I haven't "been there", I don't buy it. I don't have to be furloughed to know it sucks. Something similar has happened to all of us ... I for one showed up at the flight school where I used to work to find out one day that the insurance was canceled, the airplanes were sold, and I was unemployed ... without warning.
To you guys sacked by CHQ, my sympathy ... I mean that. You got the screw-job of the century ... we may all hate furloughs, but at least they go by the contract. It seems to me your anger is best directed at the Teamsters ... the people you paid good money to represent you before the company. It seems pretty clear they didn't do too much for your dues dollar, eh?
My point in my post was only that the most productive thing we can do is move on. Set aside the unchangeable past as just that, and move forward. Accept that CHQ management is lying, backstabbing, two-faced, and opportunistic at the expense of their employees. If and when the pipeline reopens there, I won't apply ... at least not under the current management team. I just hope my friends working there aren't the next ones to get crapped on.
Of course, a lot of you disagree with me, and that's fine. I can think you are full of crap, but, as an American, I will take up arms and defend to the death your right to be full of crap! And you can think I'm just as full of it, but something tells me each and every one of you would be right beside me, weapon in hand, defending to the death my right to be full of crap, too.
After all, every one of us is here for the same reason ... we may take a lot of junk in this business, but it is still the most fun we've ever had earning a paycheck. And you can take that to the bank.
Tailwinds ....
R
MetroSheriff
Hittin' the road...
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MartinFierro said:
Martin, if you think that DCI (ASA/Comair etc) pilots don't object to Eagle codeshare in LAX, you are sadly mistaken. We are disgusted. The thought of a Delta system passenger riding on the competition is infuriating. However, I don't think you will see us bashing Eagle pilots the way all you AA feeders seem to like to do.
Fighting each other will get you NOWHERE. In fact mgt loves it. Seeing all the feeders fighting to be the first to sell there mother up the river for a few more RJs plays right into their hands. Can you spell WHIPSAW.
This codesharing cancer is going to be the downfall of this profession.
MartinFierro
Flyin' Gaucho
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OK, I stand corrected regarding DCI. My apologies.
The truth is is that at Eagle I don't think anyone (pilots) really cares (many may not know) about that codeshare agreement. If it were to stop tomorrow, no tears or fuss would be probably be made by pilots (although management would be mad). Why? Because Eagle would still operate those same flights to the same places, with the same aircraft, to feed big-brother. So, more power to you in your battle to end Eagle codeshare with Delta, etc. I for one don't want to stand in the way of that.
My point was that American Connection is costing Eagle pilots' jobs, mine included. It is infuriating.
Whipsaw, yes, I am familiar with that unfortunately. AMR loves it. It is a problem, and one of the reasons we have a 16 year behemoth of a contract was to avoid it (consolidate the many Eagle seniority lists and companies into 1). It appears not to have work, as there are cropping up more feeders to AA. And I'm sorry, but none of you DCI pilots have been furloughed, correct? None of you are still on the street because of Delta outsourcing feed, correct? In fact even with your problems of outsourcing, to ACA, SkyWest, include Eagle if you want to, you are still expanding, correct? Hiring still? That's great. Lucky for you. The situation at Eagle is not so rosey. So given OUR situation, I wouldn't think you would be as critical, negative, or bitter toward those doing other Delta feed.
It's a lot easier to be forgiving and pleasant when you still have a job, and none of your brothers and sisters at your company are on furlough either.
The truth is is that at Eagle I don't think anyone (pilots) really cares (many may not know) about that codeshare agreement. If it were to stop tomorrow, no tears or fuss would be probably be made by pilots (although management would be mad). Why? Because Eagle would still operate those same flights to the same places, with the same aircraft, to feed big-brother. So, more power to you in your battle to end Eagle codeshare with Delta, etc. I for one don't want to stand in the way of that.
My point was that American Connection is costing Eagle pilots' jobs, mine included. It is infuriating.
Whipsaw, yes, I am familiar with that unfortunately. AMR loves it. It is a problem, and one of the reasons we have a 16 year behemoth of a contract was to avoid it (consolidate the many Eagle seniority lists and companies into 1). It appears not to have work, as there are cropping up more feeders to AA. And I'm sorry, but none of you DCI pilots have been furloughed, correct? None of you are still on the street because of Delta outsourcing feed, correct? In fact even with your problems of outsourcing, to ACA, SkyWest, include Eagle if you want to, you are still expanding, correct? Hiring still? That's great. Lucky for you. The situation at Eagle is not so rosey. So given OUR situation, I wouldn't think you would be as critical, negative, or bitter toward those doing other Delta feed.
It's a lot easier to be forgiving and pleasant when you still have a job, and none of your brothers and sisters at your company are on furlough either.
MetroSheriff
Hittin' the road...
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Martin,
I understand your points. I sympathize with the plight of ALL the AMR feeders. AMR is a shameless entity. From where I sit on the outside, my opinion is that Eagle is the lowest of the low. I have always said I would not work for Eagle, even if they DID pay their pilots (just kidding). Please note, that is not to say Eagle is a bad airline. I have many good friends working there and they are superb airman and great people. My point is that Eagle is a shameless and reprehensible EMPLOYER.
Therein lies a big issue. All the AMR Connection carriers feel they have right to the flying that have been doing for years. They feel that should not be left off of routes they have been flying for years. The Eagle folks feel that those routes were bought and paid for by AMR so the flying is rightfully theirs. Who is right and who is wrong.
No one. AMR owned some of the feed, TWA owned some of the feed, now AMR OWNS IT ALL. Not Eagle, not the AMR Connection. AMR. Feeders don't own jack, they don't have a right to jack. They get to fly what they can negotiate. This is a perfect example of why I think the regional pilots need to support and bargain for strong scope language in their contracts. It is more important than pay, retirement, work rules or any other contract language. Without it all the other stuff is worthless. As evidenced by the fisticuffs going on between Eagle and the other AMR feeders, mgt will give the feed away to the lowest bidder. All the parties involved will negotiate concessionary pay and work rules in an attempt to get AMR to throw them a bone. This exerts downward pressure on all other carriers at their level and makes upward pattern bargaining near impossible.
The only way around it is SCOPE. If Eagle had ironclad scope language that mgt couldn't pour tea through, they would have to use Eagle and Eagle only to feed the mainline. If they wanted the increase capacity that they want and need since the TWA buyout, they would be forced to BUY those feeders that they wish to use, merge them with Ealge, integrate the pilots and pay the going rate. As they stand now, everyone is so afraid they will get left out of the banquet, I am afraid you will see the concessions start soon. Playing right into mgts hands. Come on guys, AMR is the whipsaw master. Eagle is nothing more than a melting pot of former AMR whipsawed feeders.
I don't have all the answers, but perhaps all the MECs of the affected carriers could get together and try to come up with a united front in dealing with AMR together. With all the bickering going on, you've all list sight of the true enemy, AMR. They have got you right where they want you.
As I said, the code-sharing bu11$hit will be the death of us all...
I understand your points. I sympathize with the plight of ALL the AMR feeders. AMR is a shameless entity. From where I sit on the outside, my opinion is that Eagle is the lowest of the low. I have always said I would not work for Eagle, even if they DID pay their pilots (just kidding). Please note, that is not to say Eagle is a bad airline. I have many good friends working there and they are superb airman and great people. My point is that Eagle is a shameless and reprehensible EMPLOYER.
Therein lies a big issue. All the AMR Connection carriers feel they have right to the flying that have been doing for years. They feel that should not be left off of routes they have been flying for years. The Eagle folks feel that those routes were bought and paid for by AMR so the flying is rightfully theirs. Who is right and who is wrong.
No one. AMR owned some of the feed, TWA owned some of the feed, now AMR OWNS IT ALL. Not Eagle, not the AMR Connection. AMR. Feeders don't own jack, they don't have a right to jack. They get to fly what they can negotiate. This is a perfect example of why I think the regional pilots need to support and bargain for strong scope language in their contracts. It is more important than pay, retirement, work rules or any other contract language. Without it all the other stuff is worthless. As evidenced by the fisticuffs going on between Eagle and the other AMR feeders, mgt will give the feed away to the lowest bidder. All the parties involved will negotiate concessionary pay and work rules in an attempt to get AMR to throw them a bone. This exerts downward pressure on all other carriers at their level and makes upward pattern bargaining near impossible.
The only way around it is SCOPE. If Eagle had ironclad scope language that mgt couldn't pour tea through, they would have to use Eagle and Eagle only to feed the mainline. If they wanted the increase capacity that they want and need since the TWA buyout, they would be forced to BUY those feeders that they wish to use, merge them with Ealge, integrate the pilots and pay the going rate. As they stand now, everyone is so afraid they will get left out of the banquet, I am afraid you will see the concessions start soon. Playing right into mgts hands. Come on guys, AMR is the whipsaw master. Eagle is nothing more than a melting pot of former AMR whipsawed feeders.
I don't have all the answers, but perhaps all the MECs of the affected carriers could get together and try to come up with a united front in dealing with AMR together. With all the bickering going on, you've all list sight of the true enemy, AMR. They have got you right where they want you.
As I said, the code-sharing bu11$hit will be the death of us all...
Re: I knew it would happen ...
At your level, I assume right out of college, your goal would be to make connections and enjoy the fact you will be at a commuter level job soon at your age...As far as your experience level I am curious where you got your 1900 and DC9 time? Was it real time, sim time, or P51 time?
Yes I am picking on you, but when you have never spent day one at a 121 or 135 carrier then keep your opinion to yourself and start praying the airlines start hiring guys in the next FEW years because the competition is going to be huge once they do start hiring! Take care, AA
Russ, Just an opinion to you. Having friends at both Eagle and CHQ I feel your experience and information level are inadequate to form a useful opinion. Yes I feel the CHQ guys did get screwed and yes there have been alot worse cases in the industry.flywithruss said:
At your level, I assume right out of college, your goal would be to make connections and enjoy the fact you will be at a commuter level job soon at your age...As far as your experience level I am curious where you got your 1900 and DC9 time? Was it real time, sim time, or P51 time?
Yes I am picking on you, but when you have never spent day one at a 121 or 135 carrier then keep your opinion to yourself and start praying the airlines start hiring guys in the next FEW years because the competition is going to be huge once they do start hiring! Take care, AA
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