Anyone tired of RJ v mainline arguments?

[Timebuilder]

I'm weary of the fact that ALPA failed to bring the various parties, even under their own auspices, to the table to resolve their problems, and now it has to be resolved for them.

It's a little like the cases of the missing girls in Oregon and Utah. It seems to go on forever, without a conclusion one way or the other.

Is there a better way to resolve the issue of representation? I'd like to hear it. That would be something new and different.

 

[surplus1]

I can't speak for others, but I'll tell you why I'm pissed off. Your group is asking for enough damages to bankrupt our union, and are suing to abrogate the contract of another pilot group for the express purpose of doing more of our flying for less money.

I don't think you have to worry too much about the union going bankrupt. If it gets to the point where the union believes it could lose, they'll settle out of court, just as they have before in similar cases. This isn't the first time for the union and money is of little interest to the litigant, which the union knows.

Yes, the intent is to abrogate a portion of your contract. I can understand why that upsets you. However, your feelings are based on self-interest and have no relationship to the principles of the case.

The portion of your contract that you fear losing abrogates my career and my future and would cause my fellow pilots to lose millions in pay and potentially jobs. Therefore, I want that portion abrogated. That's my self-interest part of the equation.

On the principles, the litigation argues that the portion of your contract in question was bargained illegally by the union and violates the law. At the moment, that's a matter of opinion with which I agree and you disagree.

If the court finds in favor of the litigants, that portion of your contract will have been found to be illegal. It that case it should be overturned.

When you enter into a contract any portion of which violates the law or is questionable as to violation of the law, you can expect it to be challenged and possibly abrogated.

That's how the union put its hand in the cookie jar. It's also how the cookies crumble and finally, it is how justice is defined.

I believe we have a winner, you believe we don't. The courts will decide. That's not a reason to be upset, it's the American way.

 

[Rvrrat]

options

At base, one could lable me a Utopian. Why? Because I was taught at an early age that people settled their affairs directly and honestly; it was a time when a person's word and handshake meant something.

No matter where one looks, there are wrongs to be righted and as many ways to go about it as there are opinions on what is right or wrong.

Sometimes the only option left while keeping an organization intact is to 'go to law'.

However, under the heading of "Build a better mousetrap", why not simply start fresh and from scratch? Ditch the games, the bickering, the bureaucracy and the expenses thereof, not to mention the effort required to fix the broken or the monumental task of overcoming the level of resentment and fustration already attained.

For example; I had financial resources set aside to fly 100 hours based on a fixed per hour rental rate. I looked at buying my own aircraft and could not justify the overall expense; I looked at a flying club, while such had advantages, it had just as many disadvantages. I found a non-profit member owned flying club. Granted, I incurred an upfront expense of buying a share of an aircraft but, it had all the advantages of private ownership, all the advantages of a regular flying club and few disadvantages. I became part of a group of like minded people and even with the up front "purchase" expense was able to fly 135 hours for the same amount of money that I had originally set aside.

Analogy: There seems to be enough of us to form our own company. One that is based on principle and is driven by ethics, sound operating and financial practices made up of people who are of like mind. Why settle for hamburger when one might dine on steak?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Re: options

However, under the heading of "Build a better mousetrap", why not simply start fresh and from scratch? Ditch the games, the bickering, the bureaucracy and the expenses thereof, not to mention the effort required to fix the broken or the monumental task of overcoming the level of resentment and fustration already attained.

Analogy: There seems to be enough of us to form our own company. One that is based on principle and is driven by ethics, sound operating and financial practices made up of people who are of like mind. Why settle for hamburger when one might dine on steak?

Not a bad idea. Obviously the Delta MEC's policy of divide and destroy anyone else performing Delta narrowbody flying has failed. Another strategy is required.

Why not grow in power the way ancient Rome did, assimilation? Make everyone a citizen of Rome and it brings folks together in a common society.

As long as ALPA allows alter ego flying the jobs, pay and productivity are going to be up to the open market. Right now the Delta pilots are the highest paid pilots on planet Earth. That gives them only one direction to go unless they stop alter ego Delta operations.

They legally can not kill Connection pilots, although they would like to. There is only one way to restore all Delta flying to Delta pilots and that is to make all pilots performing Delta flying, Delta pilots.

Read ALPA's history. The same pattern repeats over and over again. We should learn that although mergers are painful ,they are the best medicine for future strength.