Anyone know of any sic lowtimer jobs?

lancair1

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Does anyone know of an operator possibly looking for a low time sic willing to work for near nothing?

Thanks!
 

Timebuilder

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When you do the online app.......

These are the important things to bear in mind:

1) Recency of experience; they want it.

2) CFI experience, preferably II and MEI. Same as above.

3) Other important items are typical to almost any aviation hiring process.

This is directly from Bob to my ears.
 

lancair1

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Bob told me that they are currently picking up baron sic's in the 1000 hour range. I went into a two day depression after hearing that. Especially after I found that only a few years ago the 300 hour mark was common.

I keep optimistically thinking that their must be some small operator out there that would love the idea of getting a low paid, low time "intern" that they could eventually place into the left seat.

Wishfull thinking huh?
 

Timebuilder

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No harm in wishing.

Bob is picking up pilots who would have gone to a regional during the hiring frenzy. It may be some time before hiring reaches that level again. It's a great time to continue learning and teaching (more learning) and making yourself ready for your next opportunity.

On a personal note, when I was out of instructing for three months, Bob's computer passed me by for an interview. That's why number one (above) is so important. I had over 1,000 then, and over 500 dual given.

Don't give up.
 

aero99

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Be careful, your edging over to the dark side. :)

Why not instruct? I take it you don't have airnets mins, so if you have 200-700 hours you need to instruct. Plus, your getting PIC not sic.

Even if you are closer to the 200 hour mark, you might only need to instruct for a year to get closer if not to airnet's mins depending on where you live and how hard you want to work.
 

lancair1

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I won't complain if instructing is my only option, but I'm still wishing for any other job. SIC in a twin or pic in a 152, or both concurrently. I'm up for nearly anything. I'm still looking for that perfect pipeline job, but they seem hard to come by.
 

aero99

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Yeah, I know what you mean, I am still waiting for Bill Gates to hand over the company to me.


Go get you instructors rating if you haven't already and get experience,currency, pic, the all mightly log book hours, and a little pay to boot.

Then, keep looking for that sic twin (if thats what you want) and you will be ready when one pops up.

Good luck.
 

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Welcome BACK to reality...

lancair1 said:
Bob told me that they are currently picking up baron sic's in the 1000 hour range. I went into a two day depression after hearing that. Especially after I found that only a few years ago the 300 hour mark was common.

Wishfull thinking huh?
Welcome BACK to reality...

Back in the early 90's it was taking 2,500 TT and 500 Multi to even meet the MINIMUMS of almost all the Commuter airlines... and if you did get hired (usually took over 3,000 hours and closer to 1,000 multi) you flew in the right seat of a Beech 1900 (can you say King Air?).. but not until after you coughed up $10,000 for that SIC training you had to pay for out of your own pocket.... and for all this the starting pay was between $9,000-$14,000 per year... Upgrade times were 3-4 years if not longer (American Eagle was closer to 7 years for upgrade)

What you have witnessed the past few years (500 hour F/O's on RJ's) was the exception and not the rule... You are going to see hiring minimums continue to increase as there are more and more pilots available... This was all starting to happen even before 9/11.... 9/11 just made things happen faster....

Good Luck and fly safe!
 

bobbysamd

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"To instruct - or not to instruct"

Apologies to Shakespeare.

While I see no need to get into a long debate on this subject, why don't you at least consider instructing? It is real work that pays (sort of) real money, it is recognized work in the industry, and it is better than SIC because it is PIC. Moreover, as long you keep up your CFI you will have a credential that will get you work.

Circumstances might be different if times were flush, but they're not. You need hours and instructing will get it for you.

Just some food for thought.

PS-Falcon Capt., above, speaketh the truth about hiring mins twelve years ago and P-F-T.
 

lancair1

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Our new reality is certainly diffucult to swallow.

Instructing is likely to be my only option, and like I said, no problem there. But, I would give all but cash to find a job where I either get to fly the a/c myself, or as sic flying ifr in a turboprop.
 

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lancair1 said:
Our new reality is certainly diffucult to swallow.

Instructing is likely to be my only option, and like I said, no problem there. But, I would give all but cash to find a job where I either get to fly the a/c myself, or as sic flying ifr in a turboprop.
Trust me, you will learn a LOT more being a CFI-I or MEI than you will yanking the gear for some guy in a King Air 90... A LOT MORE!

This isn't a "new reality" it is what has always been common... the last few years have been the exception... problem is a lot of todays low time pilots only have paid attention to the industry for the last 3-4 years.... forget the last 3-4 years and look back to the previous 10-20 years and you will see a view that probably more resembles the future than the last 3-4 years does... Plus with the advent of RJ's you will see less flying done by Majors and more done by Regionals... all at lower pay and less benefits... This means more pilots will be making careers at the lower paying Regionals... not that I am in favor of it, just stating the obvious....
 

Lonestar

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Did I hear someone say Baron SIC? Man, don't even bother with that. Everyone is saying to instruct, well there are other viable options. Look into traffic watch or towing banners for a while. The amount of flight time you can get in a short period of time is impressive. A few years ago, I contacted a company in LA to fly traffic watch because I needed another 500 hrs to get on with a 727 cargo hauler. They hired me, I moved out to LA and 3 months later I had the time I needed. Since then, I have sent four friends out there to do the same thing. All I'm saying is look in to other options first.
 

bobbysamd

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Hiring realty

There is no "new reality." I second Falcon Capt. What you're seeing here and now is realty. Plenty of low-time pilots looking for work. Plenty of mid-timers wanting to take the next step. There are always experienced pilots thrown in the mix from a furlough or company going out of business. And, hiring is slow and/or few jobs available.

You will receive plenty of suggestions about getting jobs flying pipeline patrol, flying traffic watch, banners, etc. From hearing those suggestions one easily gets the impression that those jobs are plentiful. Well, they're not. Every low-timer out there is seeking those jobs. Even a few mid-timers. And, not that many radio stations use airborne traffic, so those jobs are rare as well.

Here, again, you need hours and you need legit hours. Instructing jobs are easier to get than pipeline, traffic, etc. Sometimes, you have to be practical. Once again, if it were three years ago, circumstances might be different. Three years ago was an aberation.
 
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3

350DRIVER

First- I think this has been debated many times in previous threads but I will have at it once again since I was once in your position not too long ago. I would highly reccomend the CFI/CFII as well as the MEI if at all possible due to the fact that the "experience" is "priceless" and it does wonders for a resume ( atleast I believe it helped me obtain my SIC position last year)- appears to me that most flight departments want to see the applicant that has a very well diversified background due to the fact that the supply is well exceeding demand right now so with that being said I truly feel that a CFI/CFII is a must in this day and age however we have a SIC who never got the CFI and was just plain "lucky" and was in the right place at the right time however I would not reccomend banking on being "lucky" like he was ........- I also feel that the networking I have been able to accomplish is also "priceless" and I would also attribute this to the flight instructing that I do on the side when I am not flying 135.

You MUST stay "optimistic" since no one can stop you other than yourself-

Be extremely persistant, extremely patient, and do whatever it takes to "stand out" and be "seen" since their are many many many "hungry" pilots out there waiting for their chance at that "dream" position or SIC position just to put food on the table and feed their family- At 23, I wake up every morning and I am very thankful for what I have been given and I don't think I would change a thing "if" I had to do it again- In "reality" we really have it easy compared to the struggles that guys like Falcon Capt and bobbysamd have had along the way-

Let me know if I can answer any questions for you that may arise in the near future-

C H E E R S

3 5 0
 

flywithruss

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I'll second that!

I'm in a similar situation ... at 24, I've got a great job flying a King Air for a good corporate outfit under Part 91. I loathed the thought of getting my CFI, but in retrospect it is the smartest thing I've ever done. I will never let my CFI lapse ... for several reasons. First, I worked too hard to get it. Second, it puts a little extra money in my pocket on my days off!

My instructor job was directly responsible for my current job. I was teaching type-specific schools to new Bonanza owners for an aircraft salesman. One of the salesman's former instructors from long ago is now the chief pilot at my company. So, when he called his friend the salesman looking for a new pilot, I was in the right place at the right time.

NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK. You'll be surprised how much instructing will help you do that, and that network will bring your resume to the top of the stack when you're looking for that corporate, charter, or regional job down the road.

Best of luck ...

R
 

flydog

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Does anyone know of an operator possibly looking for a low time sic willing to work for near nothing?

Nice attitude

How about working your way up and getting an education and some meaningful experience at a paying job as a CFI or towing banners instead of giving yourself as a cheap gear pulling whore

Youll find that once you make yourself more valuable by building your skills at an honest paying job you wont have to "work for near nothing" and your passengers will appreciate it too
 

lancair1

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I'm sure those who have flown sic never learned anything. They will probably return that they solely focus on their one task throughout the flight, and gain nothing from the rest, huh?
 
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172driver

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They certainly don't learn what a CFI learns. The CFI not only sits there and manipulates controls, but has to teach. To teach and have to answer questions about every aspect of aviation is a learning experience that can't be matched. If you were to become a CFI, you would realize very quickly how little you actually know. I learned more in my first few months of instruction given than I ever did as a student.

Yes, a 135 SIC will learn on the job, will gain on the job experience. But will you learn the important stuff? Manipulating the controls is a very small part of aviation. Decision making and a solid knowledge base are the bigger picture. A 250 hr, freshly minted commercial pilot doesn't have this solid foundation on which to build. How often have you really been PIC? Not logged PIC but actually been in charge of the safety of yourself and others? Had to make the tough decisions without your CFI holding your hand. To teach aviation, or anything else, you must first know it like the back of your hand...

Pay your dues. There are a number of highly seasoned pilots on this board giving you the same advice. What are you going to learn by towing banners or patrolling pipes? Maybe you just don't want that pesky student next to you asking you questions about stuff you don't have a full grasp of? Wanting to fly you into t'storms, terrain, the runway. If you skip the CFI step, you will miss out on very valuable experience. Nobody here is trying to hinder your career progress but most have been in your shoes and know the best way to go about getting into theirs.
 

Jump Pilot

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I was in the same situation that you are in. Because of my work schedule, I was only available on the weekends for a flying job. That restricted my availability to instruct.

So, I investigated flying skydivers. Go to dropzone.com and search for drop zones in your area. I now am flying close to the same amount of hours on the weekends as my CFI friends are during the week.

Good luck in your search. Hang in there.
 
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