Anyone here ever been involved in a REAL

[TIS]

As some of you may be aware, I've got more than a few things to say about the subject of incursions. I'm just interested in who has actually been involved in one, how serious it was and how it all turned out in the end.

My view is that even with the 2002 statistics showing dramaitic improvement in the incursion rate trend, there is MUCH more room for improvement. Those same statistics show that PILOTS cause 58% of all incursions! That's about twice as many as either of the other two origins (controllers and vehicles/pedestrians).

The FAA is investing HUUUGE amounts of money in technological "Decision support" technology for controllers in the form of ground based radar systems such as AMASS and ASDE-X, but is paying almost NO attention to the number ONE cause of incursions - PILOTS WHO MAKE MISTAKES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SEE THE PROBLEM COMING. AMASS only reached high levels of operational deployment in July of this year, by the way. In addition, every controller I've talked to who uses it sings its praises but adds somewhat furtively that these kinds of technologies add to controller workload - sometimes when THAT is needed least.

The improvement in the statistics can only be due to a combination of improved and heightened awareness by pilots through education, the SINGLE MOST completely implemented part of the FAA's plan to reduce incursions, and a SIGNIFICANT reduction in air traffic that continues to result from downsizing efforts at the airlines.

The latter we have little control over, but the former we can grab by the horns and run with. There is a LOT to know about the incursion risks we all face without realizing it each time we get anywhere near a runway. Incursions happen, after all, because no one realizes the situation they're in until the problem has already occurred and they certainly aren't intentional. It must, therefore, follow that making the transparent hazards that exist more readily identifiable to those playing the game is a key component of reducing the number and thus, the rate of incursions overall. This can only happen through pilot education.

Imagine, if we could get pilots to simply stop making the mistakes that cause incursions we would witness a 60% drop in the number of incursions. No other mitigation scheme or safety policy can make that claim. We bear the greatest burden in fixing the problem because we create the lion's share of it.

Hoping to get some good commentary here. Please share your stories/insights!

TIS

 

[TIS]

Should have read "REAL incursion?"

NT

 

[sky37d]

Yes, 3x
First was when I was learning to fly, untowered airport, lots of flight training going on there.
On final, I could see a cub replica on the taxiway, and we proceeded. And like lots of untowered airports, especially in training, we called crosswind, down wind, base, final, short final, and just after calling short final, he pulled out onto the runway. Go around.
Second, at our little airport, we had a fly-in. We flew in as a flight of 2, and the lead landed. I extended downwind, turned final. This in my 337. I normally fly blue-line on final. But, for this airport, grass, short, I usually carry about -10. So, I'm low, slow, dirty, and some guy calls that he's taking the active. Sure enough, there he was. I was abt -100 AGL, and 1/4 out. It was an intense time, milking up the engines ( I had pulled back throttles, but forgot to put up props, so had to get everything smoothly right), get airspeed up, and go around. Successful.

3x. Same airport, same day, I'm on landing roll, after going around, OH, this wasn't an actual incursion. Anyway, I'm rolling, and hear a noise, and a YAK goes over the top of me, abt 30 ft up.
He wanted to do a flyby, and didn't care that someone was actually landing.

 

[JoePylot]

Yes;
1.) An instrument student took me through an approach hold short line at Elkhart (EKM) because it was not where the student expected it and I was NOT PAYING ATTENTION. Actually the mains never crossed the line thanks to my braking, but the tower noticed and told us so. I filed a NASA. No conflicting traffic, thank heavens.

2.) A private pilot took me half way through a typical hold short line before I hit the brakes. It was night, but the pilot was familiar with the airport. When I asked why I received no reply. I have not been asked to fly with this individual since, nor would I. No conficting traffic.

Since these two incidents, I don't let my attention wander. I find an alarming number of private pilots who are working on their instrument ratings able to blow through standard, approach and ILS hold lines without a thought. Having to use the brakes while acting as a safety pilot is so common I expect to do it until I feel the pilot doing it. Two rides through were enough for me.

 

[Diesel]

before bhb put in a parallel taxiway everyone would taxi out on the short runway and then backtaxi on the long runway. There is pretty massive hill between both ends so you can't see the other end.

I stated my intentions as I taxied out on the short runway, then turned onto the long runway checking final. In the king air you can see pretty much all of the runway.

I back taxied and turned around to depart. Got about to the the top of the hill and low and behold a citation II siting on the oposite end of the runway. I think it was 32.

Full brakes full reverse and start steering off the runway just incase we are going to hit. On 14 the runway i was on is the only ILS too. So i get on the radio and ask the citation what he is doing. He's been transmiting on Bangor freq the whole time.

Well he says he's an IFR plane waiting on an inbound aircraft on the ils so he can take off. So i ask him why he's waiting on the only runway when there is a gulfstream rolling down the ILS thinking the runway is clear.

The citation says nothing while I clear the runway. Then all i hear is citation departing the harbor. I tell him watch out for the gulfstream rolling down the ILS. He takes off and does a hard right turn off the end of the runway.

I've never had to suck the seat into my arse so bad as that day. Thank god they finally put in a full length taxiway.

 

[sky37d]

Who do you Tell

If you are involved in a runway incursion, do you tell someone it happened? Who? Does it do any good? Or is it just a potential opening for the feds to be looking at you instead?

I can see at a towered airport, that the ATC may be aware, but at non-towered, what are your options?

Thanks

 

[mar]

Always carry a NASA form in your bag

Sky37d--If I were you, I'd just fill out a NASA form.

As for me, here's my story:

Years ago I was flying single-pilot freight. On a snowy day I was holding outside the Class E surface area on a special VFR while an IFR C402 was on the approach.

There was snow removal in progress and they had closed the southern half of the runway. The 402 lands on the northern half, no big deal.

I'm cleared into the "zone", find the airport, turn final, roll wings level and see the vehicles on the runway heading for the lights.

I confused which half of the runway was supposed to be closed.

After I filled out the NASA form I called the state DOT office, identified myself, and apologized for the misunderstanding.

They were laughing and said no big deal.

Another lesson learned.