Anyone Else Considering a New Career?

[starchkr]

I debated going to my daughters school everyday and beating up kids for their lunch money...

 

[Linedriver]

I'm, What it entails is you to quit whining and leave your job so I can take your spot.

Dude, your avatar ROOOOOCCKKKSSS! I love her. I want to hold her hand and tell her I like her.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I thought about med/vet school. Went back to get the pre-requisites, finished and had the grades to get in.

But the footprint is too long for med school (8 years) and the costs are high. Out of state, you're looking at north of $250k, which once you're in your 40's becomes very difficult to amortize in the time you have left.

Even if you do it, payback is questionable. Sure, there are the dermatologists and cardiologists making the bank, but for every one of those is a dude making $150k working in a walk-up office in the strip mall.

Not to mention, there is the specter of health care "reform". Nuff said.

Vet school is worse. Higher costs, harder to get into and they make crap compared to MDs. Only the most successful practice owners make more than a 757 captain.

Then there is law school. Smaller footprint, but a much higher number of flameouts. The hours those guys work is insane, and the competition is absolutely nuts. Unless you can walk into a ready made situation, avoid.

The only way to make REAL wealth in this country is to start your own business and make a real go of it.

I've decided to go back to school and aim for a professorship. Last rankings I've seen have always had college professors at the top of the "satisfaction" charts, and the tenure track is probably one of the last good deals in America for "non-business owner" type folks.

Right now, if you have decent grades/GRE score, you can slide into just about any upper level math/science/engineering programs and still get a tuition waiver and get paid a reasonable stipend to do it ($26-30k) with health bennies. Only "real" math, science or engineering type folks need apply...and no, "aviation science" or "business" doesn't count.

Nu

 

[Linedriver]

Ok,

I used to fly for a money guy in my previous flying job. He was a self made man and very approachable. So, I asked him how to get ahead and how to do what he did.

He told me to invest in myself. Invest in myself? Duh? I do that!! What the hell does that mean? I save, I put back for my retirement, I'm smart with my money and now I, like everyone else, have suffered a major setback. My retirement is 1/2 of what it was and the people who bit off more than they can chew are going to benefit at my cost.

I have finally realized what he was saying. Invest in yourself. Open to interpretation but now I think that means to rely less on others and more on yourself to invent your future. You can't even bank on the government in doing the right thing. The government will give this country away.

Oddly enough, I have found energy in what has happened over the past few months. It has just made me realize how inept the government, Wall Street and employers are.

My suggestion to you is to is to figure out where you want to be in 10 years and retain that vision, but start today.

There are a lot of things that will generate profits: Daycares, carwashes, even my neighbors kid makes 60k-70K in yard care. Now he's a quick kid but he's still a kid. If things like that aren't where you want to be, use them to generate an investment for something bigger.

Another very good idea is this: If you are really searching for something to generate some freedom, think of 10-15 like minded people who are willing to invest some cash for a down payment on something larger. Of that you can count on a 1/3 who aren't just talking and you will form an investment cooperative. You have an invesment group with 5 or 6 good ideas, and that many brains to make decisions. That, afterall, is what corporations do and you have spread the risk and formed your first board of directors.

Ex: 5 guys @50k makes 250k to put down on building a carwash that generates a lot of CASH. Roll that back in and start another one. The key is to not rely on the income.

Just remember this; if you do anything and are buying something or investing in something, you make your money when you buy it, not when you sell it. Get a good deal - especially now.

 

[SFR]

And if so, what?

I switched careers to become an airline pilot, and for good reason - I enjoyed flying privately (do what you love), the money was good, retirement good and free travel.

Well, there's still free travel.

I'm really concerned about doing this for the next 30 years...and being able to support myself after retirement.

Anyway, I can't be the only one considering a change. Anyone switching careers or going back to school to get another degree?

Also, I'm really not looking for the haters with the "quit, whining...stop complaining...quit if you don't like it" stuff - interested in real discussion and opinions. Thanks!

Are you kidding? This job give you a lot of time off and you can create a second source of income on the side.....

What other jobs offer that???

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Right now, if you have decent grades/GRE score, you can slide into just about any upper level math/science/engineering programs and still get a tuition waiver and get paid a reasonable stipend to do it ($26-30k) with health bennies. Only "real" math, science or engineering type folks need apply...and no, "aviation science" or "business" doesn't count.

Nu

Would you mind expanding on this. I've been itching to get my Masters in either psych or soc. somewhere. How would one be able to obtain a tuition waiver and even more, receive a stipend of that much $$$. A couple of yrs ago, I did sit down with the Psych chair at a local school to discuss the program itself, but I didn't hear anything about a free ride.

Come to think of it, I recall meeting a guy who managed to get set up with something like this at NYU. I believe he said it had somethingbto do with his life experiences and that he would be an asset to their dept.

At any rate, I'd appreciate to hear more on how one might go about getting a free ride. I'm in need of a new direction and have been heavily pondering going back to school.


EDIT:

I realize you may only be refering to programs such as engineering/math/science and not social science. Did you mean to exclude the social sciences?

 

[relief tube]

I'm considering it if this game deteriorates further.

This job was so much better 15 years ago before $150 airfares came about.

 

[NuGuy]

Would you mind expanding on this. I've been itching to get my Masters in either psych or soc. somewhere. How would one be able to obtain a tuition waiver and even more, receive a stipend of that much $$$. A couple of yrs ago, I did sit down with the Psych chair at a local school to discuss the program itself, but I didn't hear anything about a free ride.

Come to think of it, I recall meeting a guy who managed to get set up with something like this at NYU. I believe he said it had somethingbto do with his life experiences and that he would be an asset to their dept.

At any rate, I'd appreciate to hear more on how one might go about getting a free ride. I'm in need of a new direction and have been heavily pondering going back to school.


EDIT:

I realize you may only be refering to programs such as engineering/math/science and not social science. Did you mean to exclude the social sciences?

Heyas ARF,

Yes, as far as I can tell, this deal only pertains to the hard sciences, math, and engineering, and usually only for those on a Phd track. The 'fuzzy' sciences are excluded, as well as almost all professional degrees (MD, JD, etc).

There is a critical shortage of US born researchers. Colleges are croaking for people for their doctoral program where English is their first language, have no immigration issues, and are sticking around after graduation, instead of hightailing it back to the motherland with a $150k education paid for by the US taxpayer.

When I was first told this by a prof I worked for, I thought he was full of luncheon meat, BUT, I got similar deals as above at every place I applied to, including places that wouldn't give me the time of day out of highschool. But here l was, a 40 year old dude with a fresh 2nd undergrad degree, and I practically had to beat top drawer universities off with a stick.

Put simply, they are desperate for smart, responsible people who are in it for the long term.

PM me if you want more info...

Nu

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

Where's skyhigh?

 

[crj567]

Heyas ARF,

Yes, as far as I can tell, this deal only pertains to the hard sciences, math, and engineering, and usually only for those on a Phd track. The 'fuzzy' sciences are excluded, as well as almost all professional degrees (MD, JD, etc).

There is a critical shortage of US born researchers. Colleges are croaking for people for their doctoral program where English is their first language, have no immigration issues, and are sticking around after graduation, instead of hightailing it back to the motherland with a $150k education paid for by the US taxpayer.

When I was first told this by a prof I worked for, I thought he was full of luncheon meat, BUT, I got similar deals as above at every place I applied to, including places that wouldn't give me the time of day out of highschool. But here l was, a 40 year old dude with a fresh 2nd undergrad degree, and I practically had to beat top drawer universities off with a stick.

Put simply, they are desperate for smart, responsible people who are in it for the long term.

PM me if you want more info...

Nu

I am pretty sure this guy needs an atomic wedgie followed shortly thereafter by a swirlie.....

-"Well, uh, I was gonna be a doctor, vet, lawyer, or butcher, baker, or maybe even candlestick maker up until the point that the minions in academia came to recognize my unparalleled brilliance......" "That point happened to occur concurrently with the award of my second undergrad degree......"

-This guy is completely full of crap. People in academia DO NOT come out of the woodwork to shellac the nuts of undergrads and try to entice them into a coveted research position in the math dept., EVER!

-Give it up, Kazinsky!

 

[Ticker]

I'm still trying to think of a brilliant idea that pays well and doesn't require me to actually be there all the time. :beer:

Two thoughts come to mind:

Congress...
Senate.

As a bonus, it's like being a stunt [email protected] think of all the folks you get to screw!

 

[Ticker]

Are you kidding? This job give you a lot of time off and you can create a second source of income on the side.....

What other jobs offer that???

Join one of these:

- OR -

Buy yerself one of these:

 

[whymeworry?]

You sound young enough that you could make out either way in this business or with a new career. If you have 30 yrs left in aviation, you'll do just fine. Despite what the public and mgmt think, planes don't go anywhere without pilots. And pilots will raise the bar here again the the not-too-distant future.

That said, I feel your pain about this being a J-O-B as oppose to a passion anymore. But as far as jobs go, it's still a good one.

I left aviation once before to pursue a career in banking. I made lots of money and had a great time doing it. But I became a different person and the semantics of that industry began to grind against the character that I am (lack of ethics in banking didn't work for me). When I returned to flying, many of my peers were years beyond me. But that's ok, I had a second career to fall back on and life experience... or so I thought.

That was in the 1990s.

After 9/11, I sought to set up a safety net once more. This time I started a business that was initially very successful. But after time, working as a pilot, and as a business owner, took it's toll on myself and my family. Then came the problems of local government, employees, banks, contractors, customers, lawyers, etc. As a business owner you have one giant target painted on your back. Everyone wants a piece of what you're doing. Everyone thinks it's their constitutional right to approach you with their hand out... then with a gun in their hand to take advantage of you when you tell them to FO. Of course, it depends on the business you're in. I was in a labor-dependant, equipment-intensive one. At the end of the day, and after more than two years of mental turmoil over the thought of "giving up", I shut the business down. I have no regrets, except that I waited too loing to exit.

The point is, sometimes reality is not as clear as the idea of what you set out to do. Try your best to think through all the variables. I'm not saying business isn't a viable option. I know many pilots who are quite successful in business. But it's not the be-all, end-all some make it out to be.

I remember the very moment I made the decision to leave Wall Street and begin the uphill battle of getting back into aviation. It wasn't easy but I did it for the lifestyle rather than the bucks. Of course, the bucks are a means to afford the lifestyle. But the lifestyle is more about the enjoyment of life than actually flying jets here and there. Once I realized a side business completely encroached on my lifestyle goals, I knew it was time recognize that wearing two hats just wasn't going to work.

Life really is what you make it, man. I love to complain, vent, be negative like the next guy. As pilots we all do it. But the moment I realize I'm going too far with it, I try to take a step back and focus on the more positive aspects of my job. Once I do that my attitude tends to change. A good attitude at work makes the gig much, much easier.

I wish you well in your endevours. Believe it or not, it is noble to admit when things just aren't working out for you and effectuating a change to improve your life is the next logical step. I myself have thought about going to law-school to become a labor lawyer on the side (seems to be a real shortage of ethical ones out there). But I'm not there with my decision yet. Right now raising the little ones and just enjoying what I have is my MO for the moment.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Heyas ARF,

Yes, as far as I can tell, this deal only pertains to the hard sciences, math, and engineering, and usually only for those on a Phd track. The 'fuzzy' sciences are excluded, as well as almost all professional degrees (MD, JD, etc).

There is a critical shortage of US born researchers. Colleges are croaking for people for their doctoral program where English is their first language, have no immigration issues, and are sticking around after graduation, instead of hightailing it back to the motherland with a $150k education paid for by the US taxpayer.

When I was first told this by a prof I worked for, I thought he was full of luncheon meat, BUT, I got similar deals as above at every place I applied to, including places that wouldn't give me the time of day out of highschool. But here l was, a 40 year old dude with a fresh 2nd undergrad degree, and I practically had to beat top drawer universities off with a stick.

Put simply, they are desperate for smart, responsible people who are in it for the long term.

PM me if you want more info...

Nu

Thanks Nu. Very helpful information. I'll PM if I need some further insight.

When I'm prepared to enter a degree program, I think my life experiences may be negotiated and perhaps I can see whether it's feasible to obtain this deal in a social science program. I honestly do feel that I've experienced quite a bit and most of it is not run of the mill mainstream ones either. Unfortuantely, I'd imagine that most schools are a little strapped now and perhaps aren't as eager to cut a deal with a student. As I mentioned, one fellow was able to swing a deal like this at NYU for a PhD in Sociology. Ideally, I would like to follow the same path. I'm big on social sciences. Was a Psych/Soc. double major and still read the field books and studies. This coupled with my varied experiences up to my present mid-30s might yield a nice deal. I've worked only in the Law and Aviation fields after college, but I need a serious change and school might be my best option right now.

 

[d.fitz]

But it's not the be-all, end-all some make it out to be.

An excellent overall post. I left an Aeronautical Engineering career making $100k per year to pursue flying. I have finally made it to a major, I am at the dead bottom of the list, and I haven't made anywhere near what I made as an engineer.

And I wouldn't trade any of it. Period!

My friends work for large aerospace corporations. They get on average 4-5 days off per month and 12 hour days. 60+ hours per week on average. All that for around $80-90k a year now. Now there is talk of layoffs. There is no seniority, they just cut where they need less people....

I spend far more quality time with my son now! When I am home, I am thinking about us, not about work. Being home every night isn't perfect either...

I'll take flying any day! All of that combined with working in a cubicle just isn't for me....

 

[Jetjockey]

You sound young enough that you could make out either way in this business or with a new career. If you have 30 yrs left in aviation, you'll do just fine. Despite what the public and mgmt think, planes don't go anywhere without pilots. And pilots will raise the bar here again the the not-too-distant future.

That said, I feel your pain about this being a J-O-B as oppose to a passion anymore. But as far as jobs go, it's still a good one.

I left aviation once before to pursue a career in banking. I made lots of money and had a great time doing it. But I became a different person and the semantics of that industry began to grind against the character that I am (lack of ethics in banking didn't work for me). When I returned to flying, many of my peers were years beyond me. But that's ok, I had a second career to fall back on and life experience... or so I thought.

That was in the 1990s.

After 9/11, I sought to set up a safety net once more. This time I started a business that was initially very successful. But after time, working as a pilot, and as a business owner, took it's toll on myself and my family. Then came the problems of local government, employees, banks, contractors, customers, lawyers, etc. As a business owner you have one giant target painted on your back. Everyone wants a piece of what you're doing. Everyone thinks it's their constitutional right to approach you with their hand out... then with a gun in their hand to take advantage of you when you tell them to FO. Of course, it depends on the business you're in. I was in a labor-dependant, equipment-intensive one. At the end of the day, and after more than two years of mental turmoil over the thought of "giving up", I shut the business down. I have no regrets, except that I waited too loing to exit.

The point is, sometimes reality is not as clear as the idea of what you set out to do. Try your best to think through all the variables. I'm not saying business isn't a viable option. I know many pilots who are quite successful in business. But it's not the be-all, end-all some make it out to be.

I remember the very moment I made the decision to leave Wall Street and begin the uphill battle of getting back into aviation. It wasn't easy but I did it for the lifestyle rather than the bucks. Of course, the bucks are a means to afford the lifestyle. But the lifestyle is more about the enjoyment of life than actually flying jets here and there. Once I realized a side business completely encroached on my lifestyle goals, I knew it was time recognize that wearing two hats just wasn't going to work.

Life really is what you make it, man. I love to complain, vent, be negative like the next guy. As pilots we all do it. But the moment I realize I'm going too far with it, I try to take a step back and focus on the more positive aspects of my job. Once I do that my attitude tends to change. A good attitude at work makes the gig much, much easier.

I wish you well in your endevours. Believe it or not, it is noble to admit when things just aren't working out for you and effectuating a change to improve your life is the next logical step. I myself have thought about going to law-school to become a labor lawyer on the side (seems to be a real shortage of ethical ones out there). But I'm not there with my decision yet. Right now raising the little ones and just enjoying what I have is my MO for the moment.

Excellent post.

 

[NuGuy]

-This guy is completely full of crap. People in academia DO NOT come out of the woodwork to shellac the nuts of undergrads and try to entice them into a coveted research position in the math dept., EVER!

Heyas,

Think what you want, skippy. For your typical undergrad, I'd probably agree. But, my 1st degree was in engineering, and during my 2nd I did a ton of publishable research, as well as TA'ing for 6 semesters. The 8 letters of recommendation, including 3 from department heads didn't hurt.

Those just happen to be the stats "academia" is looking for. Nice things happen to nice guys...

Nu

 

[okcplt]

An excellent overall post. I left an Aeronautical Engineering career making $100k per year to pursue flying. I have finally made it to a major, I am at the dead bottom of the list, and I haven't made anywhere near what I made as an engineer.

And I wouldn't trade any of it. Period!

My friends work for large aerospace corporations. They get on average 4-5 days off per month and 12 hour days. 60+ hours per week on average. All that for around $80-90k a year now. Now there is talk of layoffs. There is no seniority, they just cut where they need less people....

I spend far more quality time with my son now! When I am home, I am thinking about us, not about work. Being home every night isn't perfect either...

I'll take flying any day! All of that combined with working in a cubicle just isn't for me....

Good post.

My question to you is...do you think you will still be able to make the same post after you are furloughed this coming Sept. and spend one or two years selling used cars?

Then back on first year pay when/if you come back? That is a long time to be just getting by. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth with regards to the 'fun' of it. Causes big family problems too.

All of this is hypothetical of course but the severity of this economic down turn is unknown and the 'stimulus package' is an experiment that may or may not work. If it doesn't there's going to be lots of pilots on the street in '09.

 

[d.fitz]

My question to you is...do you think you will still be able to make the same post after you are furloughed this coming Sept. and spend one or two years selling used cars?

Then back on first year pay when/if you come back?

For one, I do not believe there will be furloughs. But, if there are, I will cross that bridge when I get to it. I can always go back to engineering. That door is not closed at all. I am just doing what make me MORE happy. Success is not a destination, it's a journey... I can't control most of what happens, but I can control my reaction to it.

If I do get furloughed though, we get longevity pay. So I would get 3-4 year pay after my 2 year vacation.

"...and that's when the big bucks start rollin in..."

<before I get crucified - thats from Coming to America when Louis Anderson is washing the lettuce at McDowells>

 

[Vingus]

I'm still trying to think of a brilliant idea that pays well and doesn't require me to actually be there all the time. Failing that stunt c*ck.:beer:

This type of intelligent post is part of the reason that our profession has fallen so far.

You sir, are an idiot!