Anybody else tired of the excuses and extensions at ASA?

[outtahere]

FU Joe. You have no idea what non-sense you spout.

 

[Data]

Tell that to the Judge or the families of the deceased. That's assuming you survive the accident yourself. "Tiredness kills-Take a break"

You'll have an accident from being jm'd? That's new. If you don't feel you're up to it, you call in fatigued, it's really that simple. If you aren't professional enough to do that, this isn't the industry for you.

 

[overseas boy]

Yeah data that's right cause fatigue has never played a part in any accident has it. Another idiot that thinks they're to good for it to happen to them until it does and then you'll probably still be saying "how could this happen to me".

 

[crj567]

As you said, it could be worse.....I'm sure there are some CMR pilots who would gladly trade places with you.

I've been here over 16 years, and I just got integrated for a 3 day trip next weekend and I had plans...I've never been integrated for a 3 day trip in all of those 16+ years. Am I happy about it? No....But I understand that we gained some flying that we weren't expecting and I am glad we are growing instead of shrinking like many of our colleagues.

If it is really that bad, then walk the walk and quit like you said you are willing to do....

Whether we like it or not, we earned more flying, and Delta keeps moving the flying around from month to month.

Whether we like it or not, Delta is pressuring us to lower our costs by being "second most cost competitive".

Whether we like it or not, this business is very competitive right now. We are competing for a shrinking piece of the pie with smaller margins.

Whether we like it or not, ASA in the process of the largest merger ever of two regionals and preparing to more than double in size...There is a lot on the plate right now...

Stay focused, keep your eye on the prize, look down the road.....We are in better shape than most....If that doesn't work, and you have something better to do, by all means go for it....

Flame away.....

Anyone ever notice that joe wets the tip of his finger, sticks it in the air to figure out where the popular opinion is coming from-and goes the opposite way?

I mean, hell-not everyone is going to agree all the time, but just damn! Is there a windmill left that this guy hasn't charged straight at in a blaze of glory?

Joe-You are an ass. You love to brag about how senior you are, how great life is, and so on and so forth. Let me clue you in on a tiny secret: Life ain't that great for a lot of pilots. We have folks flying tired and wrung out, they are also flying pissed, and that is not a good combo.

We don't give a rat's narrow ass how freaking senior you are, how happy you are, of how much of a tool you can be. What we care about is not putting our pilots into a position where some dog-tired crew makes a mistake which leads to an accident. What the hell good will all your horn-tootin' seniority do when we are ALL out of a job because of a mishap?

-Go find another group to sling stones at. Our overworked, worn-out pilot group is a very poor target. You will find no one stupid enough to back you up here.

 

[Redan]

You'll have an accident from being jm'd? That's new. If you don't feel you're up to it, you call in fatigued, it's really that simple. If you aren't professional enough to do that, this isn't the industry for you.

Oh great, here comes another one. In a climate with your reserve COLLEAGUES being pushed beyond any rational reasonable limits, continuous Chief Pilot harassment and then being docked pay for fatigue calls I regret to inform you sir, that it's a long way from being "really that simple."

I don't know if there's anything I find more contemptible than senior pilots (yeah, talking about you Cap'n Joey) clearly illustrating how little appreciation they have for what their BROTHER and SISTER COLLEAGUES are enduring. Or perhaps, how little they care.

 

[Max Q]

Brad has never sounded more detached from this company.

 

[Abernathy]

ASA is and has been operating at the stick shaker. Squeezing the shat out of our performance will work until we go just that one step too far, and then it spirals out of control and we crash. BH plays dumb and twists it around to make it sound like "well maybe I shouldn't have gotten us more flying." We're not that stupid. It's not the new flying we're pissed about. Furthermore, there's always some BS excuse from them, from the past 2 years, as to why we're understaffed.

Too bad his "talent" couldn't hold onto the most fuel efficient airplane in DL's fleet.

 

[crj567]

ASA is and has been operating at the stick shaker. Squeezing the shat out of our performance will work until we go just that one step too far, and then it spirals out of control and we crash. BH plays dumb and twists it around to make it sound like "well maybe I shouldn't have gotten us more flying." We're not that stupid. It's not the new flying we're pissed about. Furthermore, there's always some BS excuse from them, from the past 2 years, as to why we're understaffed.

Too bad his "talent" couldn't hold onto the most fuel efficient airplane in DL's fleet.

Welcome to the future!

-And we thought the "bad ol' days" were bad!

 

[COOPERVANE]

Brad has never sounded more detached from this company.

I don't know why. I and MANY others sent letters to him. At least one group had meetings with Brad to let him know this was going to happen. I told him I felt like the sailor who tells the captain the crew is about to mutiny if something didn't change. (see "the Bounty")

I told him the BP rig workers warned MGMT they and the equipment were being pushed too hard and things were getting unsafe. BP execs KEPT pushing. See what the result was.

When I first started at ASA, I often wondered why pilots thought they could run the airline better than MGMT. It seemed so silly to me. After a time, I learned something. Sometimes the FRONT line worker has a unique perspective on how things are running in day to day operations. We have a THOUSAND+ college educated cadre of individuals who see daily issues from a front row seat. Some have been here for DECADES. They/we see issues with Sched,Maint,Dispatch,Catering,Gates,ATC EVERYDAY. No other department in the company is exposed to so many aspects of the operation.

MGMT needs to LISTEN to the group that is in this unique position......The PILOTS!! But no...ASA management runs this place based on TPS reports. Maybe we have whined so much over the years they just ignore it and tune us out. Maybe they were counting on PBS to solve the staffing issue.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I don't know why. I and MANY others sent letters to him. At least one group had meetings with Brad to let him know this was going to happen. I told him I felt like the sailor who tells the captain the crew is about to mutiny if something didn't change. (see "the Bounty")

I told him the BP rig workers warned MGMT they and the equipment were being pushed too hard and things were getting unsafe. BP execs KEPT pushing. See what the result was.

When I first started at ASA, I often wondered why pilots thought they could run the airline better than MGMT. It seemed so silly to me. After a time, I learned something. Sometimes the FRONT line worker has a unique perspective on how things are running in day to day operations. We have a THOUSAND+ college educated cadre of individuals who see daily issues from a front row seat. Some have been here for DECADES. They/we see issues with Sched,Maint,Dispatch,Catering,Gates,ATC EVERYDAY. No other department in the company is exposed to so many aspects of the operation.

MGMT needs to LISTEN to the group that is in this unique position......The PILOTS!! But no...ASA management runs this place based on TPS reports. Maybe we have whined so much over the years they just ignore it and tune us out. Maybe they were counting on PBS to solve the staffing issue.

The frontline employees do have a good understanding of how things are running on the day to day basis. What frontline employees lack is a understanding of the bigger picture, and the overall direction of the company. We aren't informed of all of the things that may be coming or going a few months from now, and I trust that for the most part, our management does a good job. There are a few people in the office who need to move on, and everyone knows who they are.

I was in recurrent class the other day, and Scott Hall came in and said that we had a choice to either accept flying that Delta was throwing our way in July, or let it go to Pinnacle. Combine that with Delta then extending the contract on the 6 CRJ-200s unexpectedly, and we are understaffed. The alternative was to let that flying go to a competitor.

Hopefully soon things will ease up, but I would rather take flying and run lean than let more flying go to another company.

Don't fly if you are fatigued. Fill out an ASAP, and a fatigue form. But don't abuse the system. If you are angry, and want to send a message then quit.

 

[COOPERVANE]

If you are angry, and want to send a message then quit.

Working on it.

Yes, I understand that MGMT has a much larger picture. I get that. You misunderstood my point. They are missing the smaller picture.

WE have a much smaller picture. But we see in MUCH more detail. The G.O. has NO IDEA what goes on out there.

I submit that ASA MGMT needs to select a cross section of trusted pilots. Someone who will tell them on a weekly/bi-weekly basis how things are running. AND LISTEN TO THEM.

 

[Freebrd]

Fine to accept Delta flying but not being properly manned is the problem, and that rests w/ mgt. Maybe PBS wouldve helped but someone screwed that puppy up! That's why they're in crisis mode now trying to hire ExJet furloughed pilots, and apparently why interviews are ongoing this weekend for new hires.

Then you have mgt using reserves to fly up to and likely beyond guarantee, heck more than line holders! SKYW pilots have stated that BH did this there, and hates paying pilots to sit around drawing pay. Just saying.

 

[Jorgy50]

As you said, it could be worse.....I'm sure there are some CMR pilots who would gladly trade places with you.

I've been here over 16 years, and I just got integrated for a 3 day trip next weekend and I had plans...I've never been integrated for a 3 day trip in all of those 16+ years. Am I happy about it? No....But I understand that we gained some flying that we weren't expecting and I am glad we are growing instead of shrinking like many of our colleagues.

If it is really that bad, then walk the walk and quit like you said you are willing to do....

Whether we like it or not, we earned more flying, and Delta keeps moving the flying around from month to month.

Whether we like it or not, Delta is pressuring us to lower our costs by being "second most cost competitive".

Whether we like it or not, this business is very competitive right now. We are competing for a shrinking piece of the pie with smaller margins.

Whether we like it or not, ASA in the process of the largest merger ever of two regionals and preparing to more than double in size...There is a lot on the plate right now...

Stay focused, keep your eye on the prize, look down the road.....We are in better shape than most....If that doesn't work, and you have something better to do, by all means go for it....

Flame away.....

Try doing reserve for 3 years, getting reammed every stinking day by scheduling and then we'll see how you feel about it.

 

[FightingIrish]

We are running too lean, but I believe much of it is do to the new flying that Delta gave to us. I would rather have us accept the flying than lose it to Pinnacle. Some of the same people crying about this growth and the growing pains that come with are the same ones who cried about us shrinking and furloughing and downgrading. It's been said before, but it could be a lot worse.

If you are fatigued, then call in fatigued. If you can't stand it, then quit. It's very simple.

 

[twott driver]

I'm not afraid of a bit of hard work, and am quite happy to pull my weight if needed. However, from my perspective, the staffing shortage is setting us up to look like a bunch of amateurs when the weather hits the fan and we're cancelling flights up the ying yang. That more than anything concerns me. Clear weather days have zero reserves and extensions/cancellations. The meltdown is coming. Maybe it WOULD have been better to let that flying go to Pinnacle... their staffing is even worse than ours and we could have sat back and watched the show. Concentrate on the things we can do and do them properly. If you aren't prepared to put all the necessary resources into an operation, you're better off not doing it at all.

 

[FightingIrish]

I'm not afraid of a bit of hard work, and am quite happy to pull my weight if needed. However, from my perspective, the staffing shortage is setting us up to look like a bunch of amateurs when the weather hits the fan and we're cancelling flights up the ying yang. That more than anything concerns me. Clear weather days have zero reserves and extensions/cancellations. The meltdown is coming. Maybe it WOULD have been better to let that flying go to Pinnacle... their staffing is even worse than ours and we could have sat back and watched the show. Concentrate on the things we can do and do them properly. If you aren't prepared to put all the necessary resources into an operation, you're better off not doing it at all.

If we had let it go to Pinnacle, the same people here would be complaining about Pinnacle growing and the slow movement or backward movement here. Sometimes I think some of you will never be happy.

 

[twott driver]

I'm playing the devils advocate. Of course I would prefer the flying to come here, but then they need to staff it correctly. It's been 6 months since Tutt sent his apology about the lack of crews and that he was doing something about it. We are no better off 6 months down the track. They keep making excuses about being blindsided with this and that and as a result we are short. Hall says the delays in the delivery of the 700's contributed to the shortage. How exactly does he figure that? They obviously have an agenda for running it as lean as possible. All I'm saying is it's going to bite them in the ass and we'll end up paying the price, ultimately.

 

[Max Q]

If we had let it go to Pinnacle, the same people here would be complaining about Pinnacle growing and the slow movement or backward movement here. Sometimes I think some of you will never be happy.

You have absolutely no place in this discussion. Perhaps you should GTFO.

 

[Data]

Yeah data that's right cause fatigue has never played a part in any accident has it. Another idiot that thinks they're to good for it to happen to them until it does and then you'll probably still be saying "how could this happen to me".

Perhaps you should try reading my post again. While you're glossing over it, can you pull the quote where I dismissed fatigue as playing a role on any accident? Hint, you can't, because I didn't say that. As for the 'idiot' comment, what does my 'thinking I'm 'to' good' have to do with any of this? It doesn't.

 

[Data]

Oh great, here comes another one. In a climate with your reserve COLLEAGUES being pushed beyond any rational reasonable limits, continuous Chief Pilot harassment and then being docked pay for fatigue calls I regret to inform you sir, that it's a long way from being "really that simple."

I don't know if there's anything I find more contemptible than senior pilots (yeah, talking about you Cap'n Joey) clearly illustrating how little appreciation they have for what their BROTHER and SISTER COLLEAGUES are enduring. Or perhaps, how little they care.

I didn't realize I was so senior. Perhaps before jumping to conclusions you should ask questions and not make assumptions to prove your point. I am a reserve pilot and have been for more than half of my career at ASA. But, it has "really" been "that simple". You see, if I feel too tired or not up to the task of flying, I will call in fatigued, I don't care what the consequences are. I would also think that most professional pilots don't need to be reminded on an anonymous web board that they should 'fly safe' and 'not fly tired' but apparently, given your vocal response, I guess those types of warnings are needed on these boards because recurrent ground and basic proficiency don't sound like they are enough for you.

 

[outtahere]

I've got an idea, all you guys suggesting that the peed off pilots should quit, how bout you quit. Then, when we need to get something done in this union of pilots, we won't have to worry about you pacifists screwing up the vote. You can't get blood from a turnip, brad and company are going to find out the hard way. I'm flying the safest plane in the sky, every leg, every day. Hopefully you all are as well.

 

[LazyLightnin']

As you said, it could be worse.....I'm sure there are some CMR pilots who would gladly trade places with you.

I've been here over 16 years, and I just got integrated for a 3 day trip next weekend and I had plans...I've never been integrated for a 3 day trip in all of those 16+ years. Am I happy about it? No....But I understand that we gained some flying that we weren't expecting and I am glad we are growing instead of shrinking like many of our colleagues.

If it is really that bad, then walk the walk and quit like you said you are willing to do....

Whether we like it or not, we earned more flying, and Delta keeps moving the flying around from month to month.

Whether we like it or not, Delta is pressuring us to lower our costs by being "second most cost competitive".

Whether we like it or not, this business is very competitive right now. We are competing for a shrinking piece of the pie with smaller margins.

Whether we like it or not, ASA in the process of the largest merger ever of two regionals and preparing to more than double in size...There is a lot on the plate right now...

Stay focused, keep your eye on the prize, look down the road.....We are in better shape than most....If that doesn't work, and you have something better to do, by all means go for it....

Flame away.....

You poor out of touch bastard.. I hope you make it through your 3 day, pumpkin.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Anyone ever notice that joe wets the tip of his finger, sticks it in the air to figure out where the popular opinion is coming from-and goes the opposite way?

I've noticed every time joe wets the tip of his finger, its usually aimed at the rear end of one of his cohorts at the rjdc.:blush:
Seems like you don't miss a beat either sport. :laugh:

 

[777forever]

Its unfortunate that many pilots lives are being affected by the short staffing. Every pilot has different priorities. Some pilots have plans and want to spend time at home with their families, and some pilots want to fly more to earn more money. Extending a commuting lineholder for premium pay doesn't help that pilot if they miss their commute and have to get a hotel or sleep in the crewroom.

ALPA's proposal for the voluntary JM list for 200% pay is one of the best solutions. Find the pilots that want to fly their arse off and make more money, and leave the QOL guys alone. Then everybody should be satisfied

 

[Freebrd]

bettr yet man the friggin airline already instead of trying to do it on the cheap! :angryfire

 

[Speedtape]

Extensions or rescheduling happens at most airlines. The flying has to be covered.
With growth (adding more capacity with increased block hours),comes pain. We are an outsourcer not a freemarket company. We don't plan our future flying, it gets offered to us. Under that concept, planned hiring will always come after the increase in block hours.

Nothing is normal or static in this industry or in the contract world. To grow, we have to be willing to respond on short notice. Increased block hours means upgrades and pilots moving off of Reserve. Being inflexible means less oportunity for individual pilots.

Unfortunately, this is the nature of the beast! Hiring will follow growth. Growth lowers block hour costs creating more opportunity. The Company can only increase profit by adding more units and increasing departures, lowering costs through growth, and exercising cost controls in the process. If you want long term employment, then you have a vested interest in helping your company grow. Otherwise, longterm, your QOL will really suck and ANY job security will disappear.

To be able to increase your wage and benefits, the Company has to be profitable. To be profitable, opportunites have to be captured, the flying has to be covered, and performance goals have to be met or exceeded. As an employee, you have a vested interest in achieving some of the same goals as your Company.

Short term pain will result in long term gain. Help is on the way with the planned hiring. What is happening today will be mitigated by the hiring.

If we can't set ourslelves apart from our competitors in our efforts, we will get what they get--or maybe less.

 

[Speedtape]

I've noticed every time joe wets the tip of his finger, its usually aimed at the rear end of one of his cohorts at the rjdc.:blush:
Seems like you don't miss a beat either sport. :laugh:

Joe is usually right. He absolutely right on this one!

 

[OCP]

And speedtape, you are on reserve and have been hearing the same story for 6 months? It's only now that is starting really effect the line holders that this is becoming more of an issue.

 

[JumpersAway]

You poor out of touch bastard.. I hope you make it through your 3 day, pumpkin.

Actually- I don't think there's much out of touch with what he stated. It may not be what you want to hear, or read, but it is what it is.

Nobody is happy about the junior manning, and I'm not an advocate of what is going on. Let's see what we come up with in regard to the next vacancy bid, along with the "will fly for 200% pay list". I'm all for it- let those that want to make bank work, and those that want QOL to be left alone, left alone.

 

[777forever]

Actually- I don't think there's much out of touch with what he stated. It may not be what you want to hear, or read, but it is what it is.

Nobody is happy about the junior manning, and I'm not an advocate of what is going on. Let's see what we come up with in regard to the next vacancy bid, along with the "will fly for 200% pay list". I'm all for it- let those that want to make bank work, and those that want QOL to be left alone, left alone.

Well said. I know its different for everyone, but for me personally extra money from max flying and improved QOL are tied together. I have seen my QOL go up exponentially due to my much bigger checks(95hrs credit/300 per diem in ATL vs 65hrs credit/150hrs per diem in IAD)

With all the ERAU wunkerkids that are 150k in debt with student loans I'd think they'd be happy with the abundant amount of flying available hehe.