Any traffic in the area, please, advise.

[A Squared]

Yeah, I knew that would get your attention. It was brought to my attention that the newest revision of the AIM specifically states that the phrase: "Any traffic in the area, please, advise." is bad and should not be used (4-1-9 (g)(1).

SO, that should settle it, right? Discuss.

Just for the record, I don't have strong feelings about the issue, I don't use the phrase, but neither does it make my blood boil to hear somone else use it. But I know that it is a matter of great interest to some.

 

[unreal]

I don't think there's much wrong with it if the pilot also takes care to adequately clear the area visually and use standard pattern entry procedures. The people that I worry about are the ones that say "Any aircraft in the area, please advise," then chug into the pattern with a non-standard entry without scanning just because there was no response.

Even if someone does scan the area and enter correctly, I still think that it is bad form. Then again, you can call me a hypocrite for that. I still say "upwind."

 

[icefr8dawg]

Say whatever you want out there in Wi, or Mn. but PLEASE, here in the NY/NJ are we really don't have the room for the redundant calls or any more than base, final and deparing.


oh, and i live for the nonstandard pattern. I'm on the one slipping sideways through the trees on base ;P

I don't think there's much wrong with it if the pilot also takes care to adequately clear the area visually and use standard pattern entry procedures. The people that I worry about are the ones that say "Any aircraft in the area, please advise," then chug into the pattern with a non-standard entry without scanning just because there was no response.

Even if someone does scan the area and enter correctly, I still think that it is bad form. Then again, you can call me a hypocrite for that. I still say "upwind."

 

[SSDD]

I think it gives the false impression that you're getting everyone's attention, but ignore's the fact that many aircraft don't have electrical systems, much less a radio.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Say whatever you want out there in Wi, or Mn. but PLEASE, here in the NY/NJ are we really don't have the room for the redundant calls or any more than base, final and deparing.

I'll second that. The level of annoyance at pointless or redundant calls has alot to do with the congestion on the freq. It's bad enough in the Northeast where you have so bloody many uncontrolled airports within the same geographic area sharing 2 or 3 CTAF frequencies. It's enough of a pain just trying to communicate standard intentions when at any given time you can hear traffic for 5 different airports. Add to that someone tying up the freq with unnecessary babble and it'll make you want to reach through the mike and choke someone.

 

[agpilot34]

I dont have a problem with that phrase, as long as it's used ONCE. I hate to hear guys use it on EVERY call until they're on the ground. I agree also that it DOES NOT take the place of good visual scanning and proper traffic pattern entry.

 

[ReverseSensing]

​

Here's the link.

AIM 4-1-9

g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions
​

1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.​

​

 

[Snakum]

Most of my 'fun' flying is done at uncontrolled fields, and it boggles my mind that some of you have an issue with pilots asking for traffic advisories on the way in. I know personally I don't allow that request to take the place of a good scan and self-announce of positions, and I doubt others are doing it, either. I like that other pilots ask when I'm out banging around locally, and I ask as well when heading back. So I say ... the more information, the better.

What are you ... the effing radio police? I want all the information I can possibly get (or give) when I'm sharing small pieces of sky with other fast moving objects.

 

[paulsalem]

I hate it and never use it. I just listen for others to self-announce.

I really hate the Airport Advisory question when an airport has Wx reporting.

Single runway, wind down the runway at 15kts, and people ask which runway is in use?

It's an uncontrolled field, land with a tailwind if you like, see if I care.

If you'd just listen for a bit, you will probably hear somone self annouce position, and runway number. If not, then there isn't anybody in the area, do whatever you want!

 

[AC560]

Single runway, wind down the runway at 15kts, and people ask which runway is in use?

If I had a dollar for everytime I flew into an uncontrolled airport and they were landing/departing the wrong way I would be a billionare.

 

[ReverseSensing]

What are you ... the effing radio police?

Yes. Keep your hands where I can see them, son. License, registration, and proof of insurance. This can go easy or hard, your choice.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Most of my 'fun' flying is done at uncontrolled fields, and it boggles my mind that some of you have an issue with pilots asking for traffic advisories on the way in. I know personally I don't allow that request to take the place of a good scan and self-announce of positions, and I doubt others are doing it, either. I like that other pilots ask when I'm out banging around locally, and I ask as well when heading back. So I say ... the more information, the better.

What are you ... the effing radio police? I want all the information I can possibly get (or give) when I'm sharing small pieces of sky with other fast moving objects.

There is such a thing as too much information when you are tying up the freq with superfluous transmissions.

How annoying it is depends on the level of congestion. If the freq is clear, blabber all you want, the use of the phrase alone isn't going to bother me. But, if you are flying in a place like the Northeast, it really annoys the heck out of everyone when 5 different planes at different airports including a jump plane are all trying to broadcast their intentions while some yahoo is tying the CTAF up transmitting unnecessary babble.

Listen, think, key mike, speak. Basic fundamentals of talking on a radio that seem to elude some people.

 

[A Squared]

If I had a dollar for everytime I flew into an uncontrolled airport and they were landing/departing the wrong way I would be a billionare.

The wrong way.

Define "the wrong way"

I suspect that your definition of wrong way is really "some way other than the way *I* would choose to land."

The fact is, the choice you would make is not necessarily the choice everyone would make. Depending on the type of aircraft, confidence of the pilot (justified or not) operational convenience, local terrain, and a whole host of other factors, someone may look at the same runway and wind conditions and come to an entirely different conclusion on which way to land.

I know that I've taken a 30 knot direct crosswind over a runway directly into the wind, because the one into the wind isn't long enough (not even long enough to be legal for my aircraft and operation)


Another incident comes to mind. A few years ago, I was out flying for fun, doing some touch and goes at a local uncontrolled airstrip. another airplane joined the pattern, and shortly thereafter, asked in a pretty snotty tone why we were landing downwind. I pointed out that the wind was very light, but landing into it was landing directly into the setting sun, low on the horizon. There was a pause, as the other guy reflected on the fact that he was kinda being a dick, and then he said "good answer" and we shared the pattern for a little while longer, landing with a very slight tailwind, away from the sun's glare. It seemed to work fairly well. If he'd really felt strongly about the tailwind, we could have worked that out too.

The point is, uncontrolled means uncontrolled. There may be a right of wrong runway for you, but it's not the same for everyone. And those pilots also have the privelige of deciding what is right or wrong for them. And at an uncontrolled airport, you both have to work it out in an adult manner. Taking the approach that I'm right and the other guy is wrong isn't a good start to that.

 

[FN FAL]

If I had a dollar for everytime I flew into an uncontrolled airport and they were landing/departing the wrong way I would be a billionare.

Yea, the rookies need to know how to use the "active" runway or get off the airport, eh? Hehehehehe.

I have a 10 knot tailwind limitation...if I choose to use that to my advantage to land on a runway that offers less pattern work to get on final or offers less taxiing to my parking spot, that's the one I'm using. That's the one I'm announcing.

I remember about two months ago, some joker tried to claim he was cleared by ATC for a visual to the runway 33 when I was landing 15. It was a ploy by him to claim some sort of "right of way". He was 10 miles away from the airport and I was 5 miles away and landing with the tailwind...and he din't like dat. Too bad. Besides, I was the one cleared for the visual and as soon as he started claiming he was ATC cleared, I started ignoring his challenges on the radio. He wasn't even with ATC on any clearance, there should be a law against that.

 

[Snakum]

Yes. Keep your hands where I can see them, son. License, registration, and proof of insurance. This can go easy or hard, your choice.

LMAO!


Don't you want to see my Radio Operator's permit?

 

[Snakum]

I really hate the Airport Advisory question

We're discussing "traffic advisory" requests. We move fast here at FI. Jesus ... try to keep up, will ya?

:smash:

 

[AC560]

Define "the wrong way"

I define it in response to paulsalem asking why people would ask for active runway. You can't assume that people would apply good logic into which runway to depart/land from.

Feel free to debate the definition of good logic in the selection of a runway though.

 

[paulsalem]

I define it in response to paulsalem asking why people would ask for active runway. You can't assume that people would apply good logic into which runway to depart/land from.

Feel free to debate the definition of good logic in the selection of a runway though.

Couple things.

1) If you listen for traffic in the area you'll get answers to both "any traffic in the area..." and "what's the active runway".

2) I really don't think there can be an "active runway" becuase its uncontrolled, and there is no on offical to designate and active runway.

3) If I hear people are landing on a runway, and I think I'm better off landing on a different runway, I'm going to land on the one I think is best.

 

[AC560]

1) If you listen for traffic in the area you'll get answers to both "any traffic in the area..." and "what's the active runway".

Not neccessarily. I personally don't subscribe to the "any traffic in the area" question but I do generally ask for active runway if I don't hear anything.

2) I really don't think there can be an "active runway" becuase its uncontrolled, and there is no on offical to designate and active runway.

No there isn't but in general a direction is usually picked at an uncontrolled field with 1 runway and multiple aircraft operating. I don't often see 6 planes lining up at each end of the runway and taking turns departing in the opposite direction, maybe it is more common where you fly.

3) If I hear people are landing on a runway, and I think I'm better off landing on a different runway, I'm going to land on the one I think is best.

Hopefully it fits in with the guy who is taking off/landing directly at you. You can discuss the finer points of 91.113 as you speed towards each other.

 

[paulsalem]

It's an "uncontrolled field". And I need a little excitement in my life. I often play the theme from Benny Hill while I first enter the pattern.

In all seriousness the most dangerous thing I deal with at uncontrolled fields are:

1) People flying right hand traffic at a left hand traffic field.
2) People entering the pattern and cutting off another aircraft.
2) People around my airport (and ATC) tend to call the departure leg, the upwind leg. Contrary to what's printed in the aim.