Any traffic in the area please advise!!!!!

[Wang Chung]

And how do you propose the guy without a radio give a position report? Yell out the window?

Zing!!!

 

[VNugget]

People say the things they say because they always tend to revert to natural language.

Even though we know that according to protocol "level 3000" is supposed to have the connotation that you are now checking with the new controller, there is an innate urge to actually say what the purpose of the call is. Checking in/with you.

Likewise, it's assumed that "negative contact" also means you're looking for the traffic, but according to natural language it's just a simple statement that leaves the listener hanging in the air... You don't see it, that's nice... and? You gonna keep me up to date or just leave it at that? "Looking" explicitly says that you're looking, and there's no question as to your intentions to keep looking till you find it.

Personally, I think "looking" is more informative, natural, and succinct, and would be happy if the standard was changed to make that acceptable.

 

[charter dog]

Just to add a little more food for thought to this discussion, here's what the AIM has to say on the subject of "Traffic in the area, please advise" :

AIM 4-1-9 (g)

1. General.Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.​

(Bold emphasis mine)​

The AIM is not regulation. However "should not be used under any condition" is pretty emphatic language! After thinking about it for some time, I had decided for myself that the cons outweighed the pros regarding use of this phrase. The intentions of those wishing to use it appear to based in a desire to contribute to safety, so I do not question their motives. However, they should consider the guidance provided when utilizing CTAF. I fully admit to looking up this subject in the AIM primarily in reaction to some of the posts in this thread. I was a little surprised to find such a specific reference. All these years of reviewing aeronautical references, and I still find snippets I either missed or have subsequently been changed! It never stops.​

Yes, it gets busy in the jet during arrival. And it gets busy for students, CFIs and weekend flyers too. It's really not that much trouble for me to slow down to Vref + 50 by 10 miles from the airport if it helps to give me and everyone else a chance to see each other and coordinate. Participating aircraft will talk to you when you self-announce if they feel it is required. Otherwise, they will announce their position and intentions and do whatever they are going to do. Non-participants will say nothing and may not even be listening. Bottom line: Non-controlled fields are see-and-avoid. (In VMC anyway) Right of way rules apply. CTAF procedures may or may not be participated in by all aircraft. The only proper assumption to make is that there is traffic there who are not on CTAF. Self-announce and look for them. Be ready to maneuver or go around. That's just the way it is!​

Good point someone brought up about "looking for traffic". It's not in the P/C glossary and it does nothing for the controller. You either have the traffic or you don't! I can't find the phrase "not going to look for traffic" or " got 'im on the fishfinder" in there either, so it seems safe to presume that ATC expects either a negative or affirmative response to his traffic advisory. And on that note, how do you guys feel about traffic advisories recieved while in class A airspace? Considering that visual separation does not apply in the flight levels, how do you respond to an advisory? Just a "roger, junk-jet 309" or do you feel compelled to answer as you would in any other class of airspace? No wind up, I am curious. This subject has come up in conversation from time to time. Great thread.​

Best,​

 

[Hold West]

I don't really give a hoot if you say "negative contact" or "looking". Both tell me the exact same thing, and "negative contact", when spoken in a crisp manner, isn't that much longer than "looking". It don't matter.

Checking in on frequency: you don't need to say "checking in", "with you" or any of the other little cute-isms pilots tend to pick up. If you are handed off from another facility or sector, I know why you are calling, and I'm expecting it. Do, however, say something useful, like your altitude:

"Minneapolis Center, Cessna 34V, level 5,000."

This applies if you are VFR or IFR. We have to verify your Mode C readout from time to time.

If I need more information, I will ask you. Which brings up another irritating habit, that of giving too much information when asked a simple question:

Pilot: "Minneapolis Center, Cessna 34V with you at 5,500."

Me: "Cessna 34V, Minneapolis Center roger, say type and destination"

Pilot: "We're a green and white Cessna 150 taildragger conversion, we departed Grand Rapids at 1800, we filed a VFR flight plan with Lansing, true airspeed 95 knots, right now we're over Cadillac, planning on stopping at Traverse City for fuel then pressing on to Green Bay....blah, blah, blah"

Me: (off frequency, usually) "Yikes, what a dumbass!" (on frequency) "Cessna 34V, understand you're a 150, destination Traverse City."

If you are not handed off, but calling in cold, just call once: "Honolulu Center, Cessna 34V". Period. Don't launch off into some long-winded request. Don't call in out of the blue with "Cessna 34V with you", or "Cessna 34V, request". Those two send me looking around the scope, trying to figure out who you are and where you are, since you sound like I should know already - like I just took a handoff. You may, if it's not too busy, call in with a succinct statement of what you need:

"Honolulu Center, N32V just departed Lanai, request advisories to Honolulu"

Cool, now I know all I need to know, and can simply reply roger, and give you a beacon code. Later on, I'll verify your Mode C and get the aircraft type.

WHen I change you to another frequency that I'm also working, you don't need to say "with you" or "checking in" or anything else:

Me: "ABC123, change to my frequency 126.6"
You: "ABC123, 126.6"
You: "Honolulu Center, ABC123, 126.6
Me: "ABC123, Honolulu Center, roger"

Sorry, we're kind of hijacking the thread here. :laugh:

 

[unreal]

This wouldn't happen to be HCF_CPC on atccti.com would it?

 

[Catbert]

...Sorry, we're kind of hijacking the thread here. :laugh:

Don't apologize, that's a great post. Stuff like that is some of the most valuable info available on this board.

In fact I'd like to find out if there's more along those lines, so I posted a new thread here asking for pet peeves from ATC.

 

[payola]

How many of you die hards who are so vehemently opposed to "checking in" or "with you" say "good morning/afternoon/evening" to controllers? Sure it's polite and might inspire some good feelings between you and the controller but it takes just as long and creates just as much 'congestion' as the other two phrases.

For the record, I'll give a greeting on checking in or changing frequency but I never say "checking in" or "with you". "Houston Center, good morning, call sign, level XX thousand."

 

[Vector4fun]

My $0.02,

I'm based out of a pretty UN-busy GA airport when flying my C172. However, the unicom/CTAF freq is often crowded with calls from other airports. I seldom make more than one call on downwind, Unless I hear somebody inbound my field. In that case, I'll announce my position repeatedly until we have an obvious sequence and visual. Saying "Any traffic please advise" is not going to add or alter anything I do or say, I do it anyway if you're checking in ive to ten miles out.

I know there are some idiots out there, but folks who won't cooperate in the pattern aren't going to start because of a single phrase. As far as I'm concerned, you can be #1, unless I'm returning from a long X-country and really need to pee, I don't care, I'm flying, and I love doing it. Just don't lie and say you're a three mile final when you're really eight miles out. What I constantly notice is folks who don't have their radios or audio set properly, and are not hearing a thing, even though they're making pattern calls, or they're on the wrong freq entirely. In those cases, "Any Traffic Please Advise" doesn't accomplish a dang thing anyway. In any event, it's not my pet peeve anyway. There's so much horseshat on unicom frequency of all kinds, even my non-pilot wife thinks it's a bunch of idiots on frequency. When I told her "Now you know what my tracon frequency sounds like on Saturdays!", she had a whole new appreciation of controller "Stress".

 

[Stealthh21]

Get a life.

 

[Stealthh21]

How many of you die hards who are so vehemently opposed to "checking in" or "with you" say "good morning/afternoon/evening" to controllers? Sure it's polite and might inspire some good feelings between you and the controller but it takes just as long and creates just as much 'congestion' as the other two phrases.

For the record, I'll give a greeting on checking in or changing frequency but I never say "checking in" or "with you". "Houston Center, good morning, call sign, level XX thousand."

Get a life. Nothing wrong with any of those. Get over it.

Saying good morning takes about half a second, and does not congest the frequency.

What I think would free up the airwaves is a special frequency for weekend warriors and newbies. That way I don't have to hear some cezzna checking in for 2 minutes.

Anyway get over the good morning stuff. There are bigger things to worry about. Like money, retirment, am I gonna have job this year, or is my airline going to be liquidated. blah blah blah.

"Confirm getting over it? Good morning."