Any mil guys ever resign from a major airline furloughed or not?

[Foties]

Pilots are smart. What entrepenuerial ventures are you in?

Everyone has truly provided an amazing perspective. I hope it has helped others as well that may have airline hopes or need to make a tough decision like this..

I think a few points seem to prevail:

It's all a gamble

The $$ may improve at airlines, but I am convinced it will cost us a continued degraded QOL (Perspective is everything but I fly with senior Captains, that still make good cash but they all hate being a slave and working so much harder than they did before and now they are unhappy).

Airlines are a fit for some and others should truly do their due diligence before they make the leap.

Take pride in serving your country but take mil leave honestly and morally. Those that abuse it truly affect a ton of mil / airline guys. My company has changed the way we request mil leave 2 times since I have been here making it harder to do. They are walking a fine line but still are legal at this point.

So here is my final question for the night. I hear of entrepreneurial pilots that do very well with other ventures. Some do so well they become financially free and continue to fly for fun with no worries of them losing their jobs. What have / are you doing to be in more control and insure yourself from losing your airline job?

 

[NewmanF16]

I run a software development company with my wife (I'm the businessman, she runs the technical end with two other employees). That works well for me, because it only requires part time effort on my part. Others have done real estate (bad time for that right now).

 

[bagasticks]

If you are going to pull the plug on your airline job. Why don't you give them some bogus call to active duty orders. Keeps the door open.

I have one friend who has done that for four years while he worked different contracts around the world. Now after he made a lot of money he is back flying for that airline.

Another friend who has never even been in the military was put on mil leave by the airline that furloughed just because he was flying as a GOV contractor OCONUS. Now he does not have to go back until he wants to.

If you ain't cheatin you ain't trying.

perhaps you are kidding, i dont know but seems kinda shady considering our kids (E-1's on food stamps) are over there getting shot in the face by bad guys and your talking about "faking" active duty to maintain that "airline captain" lifestyle. . .

 

[Fedora]

Well, Foties, good thread here.
It sounds to me from the sound of your posts, that you have made up your mind to leave but just don't know it yet. You can tell from the various posters here that it always comes down to a very personal choice that only you the right answer to. Airline flyin' is not for everyone and that's a fact. The first year or so out of the military is a big adjustment is also a fact. I've seen guys get out to become teachers, ministers, construction workers, you name it.
While the thread here is going to get all kinds of viewpoints and suggestions, in the end it will come down to what is right for you and your family, and only you can make that call.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[bearcat]

The grass is not always a different color on the other side. I could not deal with the BS at the squadron on a dialy basis. If your looking for a quick fix or instant gratification then mabye you should quit. This job is way too easy for me to go to a ART job. I guess it depends on who you work of also. Remember this industry is a marathon not a sprint.

Shack reddog.....the politics drive me crazy. Remeber the best part of that airline job is when you park the jet, the job doesn't exist until you come back. I personally like the break up of schedules. I'm climbing the walls on orders right now and I cannot wait to getback to the airline. Well not exactly, but I am looking forward to it. The Tech job is a good deal, but remember what you are not gaining in your 401K and B plan if they exist. You can back contribute. How long before you get a Tech retirement? Are you step 5?? Most of us (myself included) type A's are never happy. Make sure you step back and look at the big picture

 

[bearcat]

perhaps you are kidding, i dont know but seems kinda shady considering our kids (E-1's on food stamps) are over there getting shot in the face by bad guys and your talking about "faking" active duty to maintain that "airline captain" lifestyle. . .

FOUL bags. YGBSM. If I knew someone that did that I would knock him on his a$$.

 

[learflyer]

You are right an ART/civil service jobs are not acceptable for mil leave at my company, so taking mil leave is just not that easy. I have already done 2 years AD for the current war and am basically timed out for the time being unless I get an AGR job which is very rare.

To add to that the sim instructor job I am describing is a contractor job (CAE)and has nothing to do with active duty and civil service.

By no means am I here to knock guys that love the airlines but I personally think it is god awful boring. When the stuff hits the fans we definitely make our $$ but there is no challenge 99% of the time. I know sim instructing would be god awful boring at times as well but my point is even with some seniority, you never have 100% control of your life. I worked my butt off as a guard technician, but I also had way more fun. As a very competitive and active person I can't even commit to a mens softball/baseball team for years to come due to my unreliable schedule.

I have a buddy that quit United at age 45, became a fireman and couldn't be happier. I have also heard a few stories of guys that started businesses while furloughed that won't go back as well.

I just wanna hear if there are any more guys that haven't gone back / resigned.

Hi Foties. I'm not a Military guy, but I can certainly relate on this topic. I was at the Fractionals for 6 years. The last few years of it, I couldn't bear the thought of leaving my wife, dogs, for 8 days anymore. yes, I had 7 off on the other side, but all I could think of on my 7 off was going back for 8 again. So I eventually resigned and got a job as a Sim/ground instructor. I'm trying to find things that suck about it but I can't! My QOL sky-rocketed, and I'm making more than I ever had flying. We know our schedule a week in advance instead of a day in advance, and for me, I can handle that.

I love walking to my fridge and getting a soda, not walking down some hotel room corridor and paying 1.50 for one. I love being able to play softball/Flag football again. I love some days only being 3 hours long. It ain't perfect, but i'm happier than I was flying. By the way, the job keeps me current in TWO jets, and I still fly contract WHEN I WANT TO!

 

[satpak77]

call this guy

call a guy named Kit Darby, he will tell you exactly what you should do with your life, and he will predict into the future how much your Airline pension should be worth. Someone might tell him airline pensions don't exist anywhere (FDX maybe).

But Darby will still go ahead and help you out with your life.

Why stop at $110,000 a year with a secure govt job and weekends off and some politics when you can roll the dice on the Airline roulette wheel and possibly end up at X Airline that never furloughed in the past, such as Delta? Any mope knows that "past performance is not indicative of future results."

But Delta never furloughed before, so they will never ever furlough ever again. Or at least until a few years back, when thousands were on the street. Oops. That ole roulette wheel didn't really work out like we planned it or how Kit Darby told me it would.

Such a dice roll could result in $220,000 a year as Captain (never mind time to Captain at most majors is 7-10 years min, that is 7-10 years being not-a-Captain) at these majors. And of course not one airline job had labor issues, strife, or politics. Just pull up to the jet-bridge, parking brake on, and you are done until you come back to the jet! Whatever happens at work, you can absolutely guaranteed not bring it home or deal with it off work. 100% Guarantee.

Hey, its your life, your family. You get issued one life coming out of the womb.

How you play the cards is up to you.

 

[bagasticks]

FOUL bags. YGBSM. If I knew someone that did that I would knock him on his a$$.

FOUL on me? I dont roll like that. . I get activated enough without creating "bogus" orders. .

 

[Tnkr Pilot]

Foties,

I just made the big decision to go Govt job and hope it's the right one. It will be a non-flying career, but deals with aviation and something I like to do. I am praying I can get hired by a Reserve unit in the same town/same AC I fly now as an IP. I want to continue to serve and fly. QOL for my family trumped possible $$ earnings for me at this time in my life, and time will tell if it was the right choice...I look at it this way, I didn't have to sign a 9 year contract to give it shot like UPT, and will make the same $$ as on AD. Make a decision move forward and excel...wait a minute did the UPS window just open?!? Good luck!!!

 

[yeahguy]

Excellent posts by all.

I've read them with interest because I am considering going the opposite of Foties.

I am tired of all the squadron BS and yearn to be a traditional who just shows up and flies. Its possible that line flying will bore me, but my guess is that it won't.

Most of my colleagues have gone SWA and they seem to be quite happy.

(Thread jump, sorry) Since my SWA buddies will never tell me, does anybody have any reasons why SWA is not the place to go? I have heard that it will take years to make Captain there, but from the pay scales I've seen, 3rd years FO is very comfortable, and it only gets better after that. I've also heard about short routes and quick turns, but that doesn't faze me, either. Are these the only downsides to SWA?

Good luck with your decision, Foties. I change my own decision every day!

 

[HarryShadow]

Foties,

My advice…bail out and do what’s right for you and your family…bottom line! Flying just to fly is boring (i.e., no mission)…flying for the cash doesn’t motivate me. For the most part, the folks you fly with and work with in the airline industry are a disappointment compared to your counterparts in the military (IMO). I’m actively looking for a job in the field of my undergrad/grad studies and will bail from the airline gig as soon as I can. So, if I were in your shoes, go for the quality of life/family route, forget about the airlines, and don’t look back!!! Do what’s right for your family and don’t think you’re passing up on a great opportunity with the airlines…I think the industry is overrated. Good luck brother!!!

 

[HarryShadow]

Excellent posts by all.

I've read them with interest because I am considering going the opposite of Foties.

I am tired of all the squadron BS and yearn to be a traditional who just shows up and flies. Its possible that line flying will bore me, but my guess is that it won't.

Most of my colleagues have gone SWA and they seem to be quite happy.

(Thread jump, sorry) Since my SWA buddies will never tell me, does anybody have any reasons why SWA is not the place to go? I have heard that it will take years to make Captain there, but from the pay scales I've seen, 3rd years FO is very comfortable, and it only gets better after that. I've also heard about short routes and quick turns, but that doesn't faze me, either. Are these the only downsides to SWA?

Good luck with your decision, Foties. I change my own decision every day!

Yeahguy,

You’re thoughts seem to reflect what I went through right before I got out…a “grass is greener” awareness. I went back and forth for about a year before I finally decided to get out. Here’s what I learned…put up with squadron BS because we get to serve and fight for our country…few things are nobler!!! Flying airline lines doesn’t really bore me, but I’ve learned that I just don’t really enjoying flying purely just to fly. Some folks get off by flying ILS’s all day, looking out at the sky and take it all in, wearing the uniform, etc. I really only had a passion for flying when I had a mission. Now flying is simply a job…and I think the uniforms kind of look stupid…God bless SWA for not making us wear those hats!!!

I think SWA is a strong company and I’m thankful to have a job with them for the time being…until I decide to hang up the flying thing all together. Going with SW is a smart decision, but so is going with Fed Ex and UPS…it just comes down to personal choice.

Downsides to SWA??? Right now I’d say the timing. Slowing our hiring and opening the Vegas base means new hires will sit reserve a lot longer (I think). BUT, by getting on now and starting to pay those dues means a lot of future security, stability, and QOL. It just might be a rough road for a bit!!! Anyways, good luck man…

 

[yeahguy]

Yeahguy,

You’re thoughts seem to reflect what I went through right before I got out…a “grass is greener” awareness. I went back and forth for about a year before I finally decided to get out. Here’s what I learned…put up with squadron BS because we get to serve and fight for our country…few things are nobler!!! Flying airline lines doesn’t really bore me, but I’ve learned that I just don’t really enjoying flying purely just to fly. Some folks get off by flying ILS’s all day, looking out at the sky and take it all in, wearing the uniform, etc. I really only had a passion for flying when I had a mission. Now flying is simply a job…and I think the uniforms kind of look stupid…God bless SWA for not making us wear those hats!!!

I think SWA is a strong company and I’m thankful to have a job with them for the time being…until I decide to hang up the flying thing all together. Going with SW is a smart decision, but so is going with Fed Ex and UPS…it just comes down to personal choice.

Downsides to SWA??? Right now I’d say the timing. Slowing our hiring and opening the Vegas base means new hires will sit reserve a lot longer (I think). BUT, by getting on now and starting to pay those dues means a lot of future security, stability, and QOL. It just might be a rough road for a bit!!! Anyways, good luck man…

I think you are right. I do have a "grass is greener" mentality. I wonder if the original poster, Foties, has it as well?

This will be the third (and last) time in my military career that I have weighed the positives and negatives of getting out.

I appreciate the info you provided on SWA. Its best to have full disclosure before making any important decisions.

Thanks again.

 

[Foties]

Don't really have the grass is greener mentality..

I think you are right. I do have a "grass is greener" mentality. I wonder if the original poster, Foties, has it as well?

This will be the third (and last) time in my military career that I have weighed the positives and negatives of getting out.

I appreciate the info you provided on SWA. Its best to have full disclosure before making any important decisions.

Thanks again.

Having worked full time as a technician / ART and here at the airline, I feel like I can say that I don't think the grass is greener.

Now that I have seen both sides of the fence, I can say I have a perspective. Harry Shadow is right, some people are born patriots and find amazing self fulfillment in serving. On top of that the challenge never ends. To me there is nothing like taking the herc on a 2 ship day vis low level at 300 feet agl, through mountains and canyons, to a dz for an airdrop. The next flight could be the same route on NVG's at night, followed by a flight that could be a JA/ATT dropping Navy Seals into the bay in San Diego. And finally when the west burns down every summer we will be helping people save their homes and livelihood fighting fires, just to name a few examples. My point is there is variety, a never ending challenge and self satisfaction.

All in all I truly think it comes down to what you the person wants:

Are you about risking years of being gone 15 days a month for many years to hopefully attain a great income and eventually enough seniority to have a good schedule eventually?

Are you about having what I would say a better QOL for still great income, but more importantly the ability to enjoy so much of what you give up at the airline?

I just flew with a Captain, 20 years at this airline that needed just one weekend of this month for a very important wedding. Of course he didn't get it and obviously called in sick, but he was the most disgruntled man and I fly with guys like this all the time. He is having problems dealing with his children that are getting older and they are pissed off that dad misses so much in their lives. I don't want to be that guy (living in regret and stuck).

I am truly very thankful for everyones post here. I hope it can assist others in making their decisions a little easier. It is pretty obvious which way I am leaning but as of yet I have not made a decision.

 

[satpak77]

Going with SW is a smart decision, but so is going with Fed Ex and UPS…it just comes down to personal choice.

That makes for good sound-bite, but very few get to "make a personal choice" between going to SWA, FDX, or UPS.

Most apply at all the majors (or the ones that day which are financially stable) and go with who calls.

If you get a SWA class next month, but your buddy at FDX claims cross-his-heart that FDX will take you next year, you gonna put SWA on hold?

Don't think so....

 

[yeahguy]

Having worked full time as a technician / ART and here at the airline, I feel like I can say that I don't think the grass is greener.

Now that I have seen both sides of the fence, I can say I have a perspective. Harry Shadow is right, some people are born patriots and find amazing self fulfillment in serving. On top of that the challenge never ends. To me there is nothing like taking the herc on a 2 ship day vis low level at 300 feet agl, through mountains and canyons, to a dz for an airdrop. The next flight could be the same route on NVG's at night, followed by a flight that could be a JA/ATT dropping Navy Seals into the bay in San Diego. And finally when the west burns down every summer we will be helping people save their homes and livelihood fighting fires, just to name a few examples. My point is there is variety, a never ending challenge and self satisfaction.

All in all I truly think it comes down to what you the person wants:

Are you about risking years of being gone 15 days a month for many years to hopefully attain a great income and eventually enough seniority to have a good schedule eventually?

Are you about having what I would say a better QOL for still great income, but more importantly the ability to enjoy so much of what you give up at the airline?

I just flew with a Captain, 20 years at this airline that needed just one weekend of this month for a very important wedding. Of course he didn't get it and obviously called in sick, but he was the most disgruntled man and I fly with guys like this all the time. He is having problems dealing with his children that are getting older and they are pissed off that dad misses so much in their lives. I don't want to be that guy (living in regret and stuck).

I am truly very thankful for everyones post here. I hope it can assist others in making their decisions a little easier. It is pretty obvious which way I am leaning but as of yet I have not made a decision.

Good points all.

I do love serving my country and I could go on and on about why I'm thinking about punching, but I won't.

Suffice it to say, the wife and I both think that regardless of our decision, either choice will be a winner.

How is that for optimism?

Best of luck to all who are facing similar choices.

 

[HarryShadow]

That makes for good sound-bite, but very few get to "make a personal choice" between going to SWA, FDX, or UPS.

Most apply at all the majors (or the ones that day which are financially stable) and go with who calls.

If you get a SWA class next month, but your buddy at FDX claims cross-his-heart that FDX will take you next year, you gonna put SWA on hold?

Don't think so....

I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think it’s as cut and dry for some. Some will only fly for pax carriers…others will only fly cargo. Some only apply to airlines with hubs/bases close to home. Of course guys who apply to a bunch will probably take the best option (i.e., an immediate SWA class over a possible FDX class in a year). I only applied to SWA…if they didn’t hire me, I was going to happily stay in the AF. Even when they did hire me I almost turned them down to stay in the AF. And now that I’m out of the AF and flying for them exclusively, it’s still only a matter of time before I move on to a non-flying gig. Not everyone aspires to be an airline pilot…some just end up there as a means to an end or by happenstance. So it really does come down to personal choice!!! Maybe folks just don’t voice it on a pilot forum, but I think there are so many better jobs out there than the airlines!!!

 

[Caveman]

Foties,

For the most part, the folks you fly with and work with in the airline industry are a disappointment compared to your counterparts in the military (IMO).

That has not been my experience. I find the varied backgrounds and interests of the folks I fly with far from disappointing. Part of the reason I like the airline world is because I meet some very interesting characters. If I judged my job soley on the basis of what and where I fly I would probably get a bit bored somedays. I really enjoy meeting and getting to know my fellow crewmembers. They are what keeps it fresh for me. In that regard every trip is a bit different. There are some awfully nice and interesting people out there that don't have a clue about military bearing, but they are still honest, decent people and I enjoy their company for the most part. Sorry your experience hasn't been like mine.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you are going to pull the plug on your airline job. Why don't you give them some bogus call to active duty orders. Keeps the door open.

I have one friend who has done that for four years while he worked different contracts around the world. Now after he made a lot of money he is back flying for that airline.

Another friend who has never even been in the military was put on mil leave by the airline that furloughed just because he was flying as a GOV contractor OCONUS. Now he does not have to go back until he wants to.

If you ain't cheatin you ain't trying.

I thought this didn't happen... I mean whenever some guy says a MIL guy is scaming the system they get called ungrateful, pinko commie, left wing, tree huggin fags....

Then again there is the Legacy guy who was furloughed..and when he was recalled he went on MIL leave and got hired at a LCC based in JFK.... all found out and he is fired twice and coming up on court martial charges.....