Any FDX pilots buying this???

[PurpleTail]

Recent email from ALPA FastRead...

"Just before the introduction of the MD-10 into service," Capt. Janelli observed, "the pilots of FedEx expressed concern about operating the MD-10 and MD-11 as a single type rating. The handling characteristics of the MD-11 are different from those of the MD-10, and the FedEx 647 pilot did not have recent experience on the MD-10. While the MD-10 and the MD-11 are a common type rating, the MD-11 has a longer wing, a longer fuselage, a different flight control system, and a smaller horizontal tail. The handling characteristics are different enough that recent experience is a must.

I fly the -11, 10-30 and the 10-10 on a pretty random basis and I honestly can not tell any significant difference between the airplanes ON LANDING. Now, with that being said I definately know what I am flying when I take-off. Personally, I am fine with a single type ride for both airpalnes but I am curious if I am in the miniority.

I have not ever flown the the A300/310 but from what I understand it is a single type ride and the aircraft are significantly different in size so what gives???

Input from Bus and Dog drivers appreciated.

PT

 

[Mr Zog]

Recent email from ALPA FastRead...

"Just before the introduction of the MD-10 into service," Capt. Janelli observed, "the pilots of FedEx expressed concern about operating the MD-10 and MD-11 as a single type rating. The handling characteristics of the MD-11 are different from those of the MD-10, and the FedEx 647 pilot did not have recent experience on the MD-10. While the MD-10 and the MD-11 are a common type rating, the MD-11 has a longer wing, a longer fuselage, a different flight control system, and a smaller horizontal tail. The handling characteristics are different enough that recent experience is a must.

I fly the -11, 10-30 and the 10-10 on a pretty random basis and I honestly can not tell any significant difference between the airplanes ON LANDING. Now, with that being said I definately know what I am flying when I take-off. Personally, I am fine with a single type ride for both airpalnes but I am curious if I am in the miniority.

I have not ever flown the the A300/310 but from what I understand it is a single type ride and the aircraft are significantly different in size so what gives???

Input from Bus and Dog drivers appreciated.

PT

ARE YOU KIDDING ME. You don't notice any difference between the MD-11 (with LSAS) and the MD-10-10 (with absolutely no thrust). You don't notice the difference in elevator authority with each. I don't know if it justifies a different type rating, obviously the FAA doesn't think so. But if you use the same landing techniques on the MD-11 as with the MD-10-10, you will definitalely lower a few field elevations. I personally land each plane differently.

 

[TonyC]

There are people who have strong opinions on both sides of the argument.


Food for thought:


Why do you suppose 3 takeoffs and landings are required in the MD-10 SIT? After all, haven't you just completed your Type Rating in the MD-11?



Hmmmmmm.....




.

 

[COpilot]

I fly a B757-200, -300, B767-200,-400. Up to a 150K pound landing difference. Approach Ref speed difference up 30KIAS. Cockpit height difference of 7 to 8 feet. Wingspan difference up to 50ft. Cockpit intrumentation difference between fleet, and -400. (vertical tapes in -400, round dial in others)

Thankfully I, or any CO pilot is yet to severely damage any of the variants.

I find it hard to belive that an ex-10 or -30 DC10's flying characteristics are that different from the MD11's. Especially in light of the B75/B76 type certification.

 

[Mr Zog]

I fly a B757-200, -300, B767-200,-400. Up to a 150K pound landing difference. Approach Ref speed difference up 30KIAS. Cockpit height difference of 7 to 8 feet. Wingspan difference up to 50ft. Cockpit intrumentation difference between fleet, and -400. (vertical tapes in -400, round dial in others)

Thankfully I, or any CO pilot is yet to severely damage any of the variants.

I find it hard to belive that an ex-10 or -30 DC10's flying characteristics are that different from the MD11's. Especially in light of the B75/B76 type certification.

I personally don't think the 757 and 767 should have the same type rating. But again what do I know. Just because we are certified to fly both doesn't mean that they land or fly the same. The MD-11 has a Longitudinal Stability Augmentation System (LSAS), that the MD-10 doesn't have. In Layman terms (inside joke for the fellas), the aircraft is constantly trimming while you are hand flying the aircraft. For those DC-10 guys out there, it would be like flying/landing in a quaisi-CWS (Command Wheel Steering) mode. 99.999% of the time landings, when going back and forth between planes,will be uneventful (it isn't that big of a deal). However, if you fly a lot of MD-10s and are landing in the 340K to 360K range, and then fly a light weight MD-11. There is a bit of a difference, but most pilot realize it and adjust. They don't land the same is all I am saying.

 

[sandman2122]

The A300/310's basically fly the same. Minor FMS, length/wingspan differences and flap settings but for handling characteristics (preface this by the fact I'm from "S. Texas") they're identical.........

now for the aeronautical engineer's pilot's opinions.........

 

[Echopapa]

The A300/310's basically fly the same. Minor FMS, length/wingspan differences and flap settings but for handling characteristics (preface this by the fact I'm from "S. Texas") they're identical.........

now for the aeronautical engineer's pilot's opinions.........

I second that....I land both of them equally bad.

 

[sandman2122]

I didn't say "bad", but I swear in French every time I land that "stiff" piece o' junk!!!! &*&*@($%&#% French plastic aeroplane!

 

[fdxdisco]

I do think MD-11 and MD-10 land differently. The MD-10-30 lands more like the -11. A light weight MD-10-10 lands differently when its light than when it's heavy.

I think the biggest difference is in the autothrottles. The MD-10 doesn't have FADEC and the autothrottles have a hard time keeping up below 100'. If you let the autothrottles come back at 50' on a MD-10 it's not going to be pretty. Took me a six months before someone told me they were different and it made all the difference in the world. The two techniques I've seen and used successfully are to 1)don't let the throttles come back until 30' or 2) turn them off at 100' and bring them back yourself at 30'.

LSAS does have an impact but that's only after you touch down. You get possitive nose lowering when the spoilers come up. If your moving the yoke (more than 2lbs of pressure) during approach LSAS isn't working.

I don't mind a single type rating. The airplanes do handle different though.

Just my 2 pesos worth.

Disco

 

[habubuaza]

Line pilots have always been exposed to variants of similar aircraft...

727-100 vs. 200
DC-9 vs. MD82 and MD88
737 classics vs. NG's
757 vs 767's

When I was flying the Douglas stuff I would do one leg in a DC9-30, change aircraft at the gate and do the subsequent leg in an MD88. The same in the 737, do one leg in a 737-400 do a subsequent leg in 737800 with winglets. The above aircraft in addition to being variants had different instrumentation and handling charactersitics. You adjust and continue on. I know Southwest pilots had to contend with different variants of the 737 for a while too. So I don't thinks it's that much of a problem, again I don't know I've never flown a MD11 or MD10 so it's just conjecture on my part.