Any AWA pilots thinkind bout the 190?

[Lampshade]

By voting yes you essentially say I accept the terms and agree with the contract. USair did the same thing and so did we with the 190, we must now lay in our beds. Like it or not we (majority) all agreed.

 

[Green]

At the time we agreed to those rates the industry was in a different state. Things have changed. The industry is recovering and our airline is making money like it's going out of style. We do not need to subsidize this merger or Parker's bonus with sub-standard wages.

 

[Lampshade]

At the time we agreed to those rates the industry was in a different state. Things have changed. The industry is recovering and our airline is making money like it's going out of style. We do not need to subsidize this merger or Parker's bonus with sub-standard wages.

Don't think you have a grasp of the facts. The company always said we were going to make money this year, good money with all the synergies, ALPA knew that when they agreed to the 190's. The company essentally "gave" the 190's to ALPA if the rates were right, if not they would get more rj's. Wheather the company is making money or not we deserve a raise! With the same mentality of your argument, if the company loses money do we deserve a pay cut? The answer is no.

 

[Green]

Are you a management pilot? So we agreed to fly the 190's at a set rate. Who cares??? That was part of the transition agreement or an ammendment to our current contract (not sure of the technicality there).

We have the 190's coming on property. We have a contract. That contract is open to negotiations. That means a new contract will take the place of the old one. Consequently the 190 payrates are subject to negotiation. When Delta initially got their 777's back in the good old days they negotiated a payrate for them as a side letter to their current contract. When they negotiated their next contract the 777 rates increased just like every other aircraft.

Just because we agreed to fly the 190's months ago for a certain rate doesn't mean we are stuck with that payrate. Agreements don't mean a thing in this business. DAL/AAA/UAl all agreed to pay their employees a pension. What happened to that agreement?

 

[UncleRico]

Hey ALGFLYR! I find it funny how all of a sudden you are posting on a majors board. Do you wanna explain to all of the 1500+ guys on furlough at US AIR and the AWA pilots about how you are all of a sudden on the US AIR System Seniority list. Maybe you should worry about your checkride as a APL Captain at PSA before you worry about E190 slots. But who knows maybe you will be recalled to Mainline which you never worked for before the other 1500+ pilots on furlough or the other AWA pilots get a shot at Captain. But hey you were at PDT since 2000 so I guess you deserve that Captain slot, right. Glad to know you think so highly of yourself considering the fact you were given a gift.

 

[Lampshade]

Here's part of the TA: "The parties will commence bargaining for new rates associated with EMB 190 aircraft no earlier than June 1, 2015 and no later than July 1, 2015. " Get a grasp of the facts, the EMB was sold down the river.

 

[ALGFLYR]

Hey ALGFLYR!

I find it funny how all of a sudden you are posting on a majors board. Do you wanna explain to all of the 1500+ guys on furlough at US AIR and the AWA pilots about how you are all of a sudden on the US AIR System Seniority list.

Well, it's quite simple really. I went to MDA under the flow-thru agreement in LOA 91 that was available to ALL pilots at ALG, PDT and PSA. Over 100 pilots took advantage of that agreement. Of course that agreement was violated when we tried to flow-back and pretty much ended any future flow-thru. You can thank PDT for that...


Maybe you should worry about your checkride as a APL Captain at PSA before you worry about E190 slots.

Well, you must have me mistaken for someone else. You may be happy to know that I did not chose to take a CA slot at PSA. I did consider it, but decided it was not my best course of action at this point given all the other issues unfolding right now. I didn't want to get stuck there.


But who knows maybe you will be recalled to Mainline which you never worked for before the other 1500+ pilots on furlough or the other AWA pilots get a shot at Captain.

I will get recalled. When is not so clear yet, but when the 190 bid closes in a few days, it will get clearer. And I will get recalled to an airline that I DID work for, US Airways. While many like to think of MDA as a different airline, the fact was that it WAS mainline US Airways. That is a fact. That is why I have a US Airways seniority number. BTW, that actual number of pilots on furlough is 1594, and I am one of them...


But hey you were at PDT since 2000 so I guess you deserve that Captain slot, right. Glad to know you think so highly of yourself considering the fact you were given a gift.

Again, mistaken identity... I was hired at ALG at the end of 1996. If you are referring to a gift I received as being a PSA CA slot, as you know I didn't take it, although it was rightfully available to me if I wanted it. Or if you are referring to the fact that I am on the US Airways seniority list, then that is something I worked very hard to achieve and I am paying for my decision. I took a huge gamble as well as a big pay cut to leave my CA slot on the Dash at ALG and now I'm currently furloughed. Was it worth it? I think so, and I would do it again. As are most things in this industry, the outcome is seldom what is envisioned beforehand. I personally took some risks, and yes, they seemed to have paid off. Maybe not at this moment, but they will....

 

[Gofish]

Here's part of the TA: "The parties will commence bargaining for new rates associated with EMB 190 aircraft no earlier than June 1, 2015 and no later than July 1, 2015. " Get a grasp of the facts, the EMB was sold down the river.

At least it is at mainline...where it belongs.

 

[LearLove]

I find it funny how all of a sudden you are posting on a majors board. Do you wanna explain to all of the 1500+ guys on furlough at US AIR and the AWA pilots about how you are all of a sudden on the US AIR System Seniority list.

Well, it's quite simple really. I went to MDA under the flow-thru agreement in LOA 91 that was available to ALL pilots at ALG, PDT and PSA. Over 100 pilots took advantage of that agreement. Of course that agreement was violated when we tried to flow-back and pretty much ended any future flow-thru. You can thank PDT for that...


Maybe you should worry about your checkride as a APL Captain at PSA before you worry about E190 slots.

Well, you must have me mistaken for someone else. You may be happy to know that I did not chose to take a CA slot at PSA. I did consider it, but decided it was not my best course of action at this point given all the other issues unfolding right now. I didn't want to get stuck there.


But who knows maybe you will be recalled to Mainline which you never worked for before the other 1500+ pilots on furlough or the other AWA pilots get a shot at Captain.

I will get recalled. When is not so clear yet, but when the 190 bid closes in a few days, it will get clearer. And I will get recalled to an airline that I DID work for, US Airways. While many like to think of MDA as a different airline, the fact was that it WAS mainline US Airways. That is a fact. That is why I have a US Airways seniority number. BTW, that actual number of pilots on furlough is 1594, and I am one of them...


But hey you were at PDT since 2000 so I guess you deserve that Captain slot, right. Glad to know you think so highly of yourself considering the fact you were given a gift.

Again, mistaken identity... I was hired at ALG at the end of 1996. If you are referring to a gift I received as being a PSA CA slot, as you know I didn't take it, although it was rightfully available to me if I wanted it. Or if you are referring to the fact that I am on the US Airways seniority list, then that is something I worked very hard to achieve and I am paying for my decision. I took a huge gamble as well as a big pay cut to leave my CA slot on the Dash at ALG and now I'm currently furloughed. Was it worth it? I think so, and I would do it again. As are most things in this industry, the outcome is seldom what is envisioned beforehand. I personally took some risks, and yes, they seemed to have paid off. Maybe not at this moment, but they will....

Nicely put ALGFLYR.

I don't understand why guys are so pissy twards the CEL guys that went to MDA and because of events out of their control ended up on the APL/mainline list. It's just how the stituation ended up (one of many possible outcomes - and one that could still change).

 

[m80drvr]

Nicely put ALGFLYR.

I don't understand why guys are so pissy twards the CEL guys that went to MDA and because of events out of their control ended up on the APL/mainline list. It's just how the stituation ended up (one of many possible outcomes - and one that could still change).

It's beacuse many of the the CEL guys think that they should be recalled in front of the the furloughed mainline pilots that actually flew a mainline airplane. Thats where the animosity comes from

 

[LearLove]

It's beacuse many of the the CEL guys think that they should be recalled in front of the the furloughed mainline pilots that actually flew a mainline airplane. Thats where the animosity comes from

where the he11 are you getting that from? I've never said that. If I was ever told that by one of the former CEL I'd smack them silly.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I will get recalled. When is not so clear yet, but when the 190 bid closes in a few days, it will get clearer. And I will get recalled to an airline that I DID work for, US Airways.




I wouldn't go counting your chickens before they hatch......

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

why not??? I'm not saying you are responsible in any way but we seem to have this defeatist attitude on the west side that things won't ever get better, we'll never get paid like SWA, etc. etc. Despite the rhetoric from Parker these are NOT growth aircraft. We have been parking a few airplanes here and a few there. The result is going to be captains at a major carrier making 80k/year. Of course it's good we got them on property but we need to fix those rates now, not ten years down the road.


You had the opportunity to vote on these payrates a while back. How did you feel about the payrates then? Did it affect how you voted?


There is no rational reason why we can't afford/don't deserve to get paid like SWA. We now work for a company with over 3 billion in the bank which is making 300 million per quarter. We have some of the highest paid management in the industry yet our pilots are some of the lowest paid. Thank god the east side guys are tired of this and have begun the informational picketing early.

You knew we were the lowest payed when you hired on here. And this was prior to the merger or the 190's showing up on the property. Whats up with that?

We don't need a 10% raise. We need something more along the lines of 40-50% just to catch up with our fellow pilots at SWA who will most likely leave us in the dust with their next raise. It's high time we stand up, hold our heads high, and get paid like professionals...We are going to have to fight for it as Parker is no pushover....My .02

Ah,what you worrying about,Green jeans.... you'll be on your way to Jet Blue any day now making the really big bucks flying their 190 !!



PHXFLYR

 

[Quack]

When does the 190 training start for the bid that is supposed to close...just curious?

 

[Bubba Dog]

When does the 190 training start for the bid that is supposed to close...just curious?

I heard second part of Sept.

 

[Soulfly]

Right now, first scheduled ground school. Oct 5th.
That was the latest from the West MEC.

 

[ALGFLYR]

It's beacuse many of the the CEL guys think that they should be recalled in front of the the furloughed mainline pilots that actually flew a mainline airplane. Thats where the animosity comes from

Where the heII did this come from???I don't think, nor does any former CEL pilot I know, even remotely entertain the idea of being recalled before APL pilots that came from ML. These are the type of rumors that are started to try and divide this group. I AM on the ML seniority list BELOW every APL pilot that came from ML. There is NO WAY I will get the recall before them. Now, on that note, it is conceivable that I could get recalled before some on the list, but the only way that will happen is if those pilots pass the recall. A very likely scenario will be most APL pilots will pass the FO 190 position, and most CEL guys will take them. Once those former CEL pilots are exhausted, they will hire off the street. So you might as well get on those future new-hires about how dare they take a new-hire position while furloughed pilots are passing the recall. The only way prevent that is to force every APL pilot to accept the 190 FO or resign their number. They don't want that....

 

[m80drvr]

That comes from that fact that many of some of the CEL folks think that because they worked at MDA longer than the furloughed guys worked at MAINLINE that they have longer time on property. I've even herd sone Alg and PDT guys saying that their time at the WO's should now count. Don't believe me, Call some of the CEL guys. I have.

I'm not picking a fight, just telling you what I have heard from some of these folks.

 

[LearLove]

That comes from that fact that many of some of the CEL folks think that because they worked at MDA longer than the furloughed guys worked at MAINLINE that they have longer time on property. I've even herd sone Alg and PDT guys saying that their time at the WO's should now count. Don't believe me, Call some of the CEL guys. I have.

I'm not picking a fight, just telling you what I have heard from some of these folks.

You've been told nothing of the such from any former CEL ALG/PDT guy now on the list. I think your full of sh1t.

 

[SOVT]

I worked with quite a few CEL guys at MDA and not once, drunk or sober, did I hear anyone even intimate that they deserved to go to mainline in any manner other than as ordered by the seniority list.

As stated in the previous message, there may be former CEL pilots going to mainline prior to a former mainline guy because many of us are going to pass recall until we are forced to go back, quit or retire.

As for their time at the regional carriers. The only time I have heard this was during talks pertaining to a flow-thru agreement and then it was only by a radical few who were living in La La land.

SOVT
a 16 year mainline guy

 

[ALGFLYR]

That comes from that fact that many of some of the CEL folks think that because they worked at MDA longer than the furloughed guys worked at MAINLINE that they have longer time on property. I've even herd sone Alg and PDT guys saying that their time at the WO's should now count. Don't believe me, Call some of the CEL guys. I have.

I'm not picking a fight, just telling you what I have heard from some of these folks.

Again, this is BS...

The longest ANY former CEL pilot could have worked at MDA was just shy of 1 yr and 11 months. The first class with CEL pilots was July 5, 2004. MDA closed down May 31, 2006. At that time there were still several pilots that were in the first CEL class still actively flying the line. I don't know how long the most junior pilot was at ML before the initial furlough in 2001, but I would think it had to be at least 2 yrs...

 

[m80drvr]

You've been told nothing of the such from any former CEL ALG/PDT guy now on the list. I think your full of sh1t.

I guess you have spoken with all of them. My bad.

 

[BFE]

ALGFLYR:

You're on the APL list? I've been at PSA for 8 years and selected "US Airways Only" a week after usairways-express.com was formed. Where was/is my phone call? Where's my name on the APL ahead of you?

The website says US Airways preference is: Those pilots indicating "US Airways Only" will be contacted only for a US Airways Mainline Vacancy.

So if you're on the APL list, I should be ahead of you. Maybe I can even get slotted at my own airline ahead of my senority?! Maybe I have a valid lawsuit if one of you SOB's get slotted ahead of me?

 

[LearLove]

"I've been at PSA for 8 years" - OOOOO A whole 8 years at PSA. Good you might be senior to about the bottom 25 CEL guys that made it to MDA. Your going to file a lawsuit for 25 positions? Your so smart.

 

[Crzipilot]

Just curious, for the former CEL guys. Whenever you get called for recall, will your time spent at MDA count towards your longevity for Pay, Vacation, Etc??? Since you carried over your longevity from ALG/PDT, will you go back to ML with that longevity for pay and vacation etc??? What have you been told?

 

[LearLove]

Just curious, for the former CEL guys. Whenever you get called for recall, will your time spent at MDA count towards your longevity for Pay, Vacation, Etc??? Since you carried over your longevity from ALG/PDT, will you go back to ML with that longevity for pay and vacation etc??? What have you been told?

Yes, no, or maybe or a combo of all 3. Some of the answers to your questions are not clear at this time. I would expect that we won't get any credit for time served at the WO however some indicate our time at MDA will count. Guess we will see.

 

[LearLove]

One thing I'd like to add:

I don't know why so many here are so focused on us former CEL guys. Its going to be atleast a year, most likely closer to 2 years before the most senior of us ever get a shot at the 190 or other "mainline" aircraft. Alot can change in that time.

Also another "thing" along thoes lines: I seems like guys at the WO's are so conserned that we MDA guys jumped senority. When you really look at it I had about 400 WO guys on the CEL list senior to me prior to MDA. Being one of the most junior MDA guys and taking into account ther are about 100 CEL guys that went to MDA (almost all of thoes 100 being senior to me) that leaves 300 WO guy senior to me that didn't go to MDA. Of thoes 300 guy still at PDT or PSA I bet 250 of them would have never gone to MDA or Mainline if given the chance (they were/are lifer like I once planned to be). Most of thoes 250 are senior PDT guys that are going to retire at PDT anyway. So that leaves about 50 guy still at PDT and PSA that are senior to me WO wise but I'm now ahead of them because of the whole flow-back debacle. You guys are worried about loosing 50 positions at mainline where you already have to wait for 1500+ orginal mainline guys to get the callback on top of us. Plus so much could change between now and then its not even worth thinking about at this time.

 

[ALGFLYR]

ALGFLYR:

You're on the APL list? I've been at PSA for 8 years and selected "US Airways Only" a week after usairways-express.com was formed. Where was/is my phone call? Where's my name on the APL ahead of you?

The website says US Airways preference is: Those pilots indicating "US Airways Only" will be contacted only for a US Airways Mainline Vacancy.

So if you're on the APL list, I should be ahead of you. Maybe I can even get slotted at my own airline ahead of my senority?! Maybe I have a valid lawsuit if one of you SOB's get slotted ahead of me?

Well, first of all junior, if you were hired at PSA 8 years ago, that would mean you were hired 2 years AFTER me. So how do you figure you will ever get ahead of me on the list?? Well? OK I know it felt good for you to say that but you were wrong. BTW, I opted not to go to PSA under J4J although it was an option I considered that was rightfully available to me. As far as me being a SOB getting slotted above you, well you had a chance to go to MDA but chose NOT to go. With your seniority, you would have made it, although you would have been towards the bottom, and below me.

Anyway, although your anomosity shows very clear in your posts, it is not our fault things unfolded the way they did. MDA was supposed to be a seperate airline, but it didn't work out that way. Once the 170's were put on the AAA Certificate, they had no choice except to put us on the US Airways system seniority list. It's already done. If I were you, I would work to get a true flow-thru in place. If you lose 50 slots or so, that was your choice not to go and PDT's fault for not honoring the flow-back agreement. So take your attitude somewhere else, because it will get you nothing trying to take it out the the CEL guys that took a leap of faith, and are currently furloughed because of that...

 

[Crzipilot]

It will be very interesting if you get credit time for MDA.....as then it could be argued that it was an illegal recall. I.E. Many more APL'rs would have gone to MDA, if there was an understanding of it gaining longevity, etc etc. Meanwhile those at other J4J carriers will not get any time credited, as it stands now.

 

[LearLove]

It will be very interesting if you get credit time for MDA.....as then it could be argued that it was an illegal recall. I.E. Many more APL'rs would have gone to MDA, if there was an understanding of it gaining longevity, etc etc. Meanwhile those at other J4J carriers will not get any time credited, as it stands now.

Guess we will see if and when the time comes. I'd be willing to bet that the company will say we don't get any credit - its only in their favor.

There are so many questions that need to be answered - many just because none of the events that have played out were even thought of back when J4J or MDA was created. The way this mess has played out, mainly MDA not being its own airline and CEL guys actually flowing up then not being able to flow back have tossed big wrenches into the whole show.

Ther was no way that the powers that created MDA and J4J and the flow could have imagined it would play out like this- nore do I think they even cared back then.