Anti union voters at Flexjet/Options

[Imissmypilot]

Posted from the VUH with permission from the original poster:

Using FW's own written words from 11/19 and 11/22 he makes it clear he does not intend to form an in-house union. He only leaves that open as a future possibility should pilots feel, after some period time experimenting with no representation, one was necessary.

Pilots need to understand that sending in a card is not a vote to replace the Teamsters with an in-house union, it is a showing of interest to become a completely unrepresented pilot group. I'm hearing some pilots may have been mislead on this very important point and if so, they need to refresh their facts with FW's own written words. To his credit, FW is not trying to fool anyone: he is very upfront with his assertion he does not feel we need any representation be it Teamsters or in-house.

Pilots need to understand sending in a card of interest puts the entirety of any representation on the line. I don't think some of the rhetoric bandied about by others associated with the drive is as forthright or clear as FW was in his posts because I know very few pilots who want to go back to no representation at all. I believe if pilots truly understood the stakes of sending in that card they would tear it up. It's not a case of democracy in action, it's just a way to get us back to at will.

It is an extremely, extremely risky way for someone to express their displeasure. A far more compelling and successful maneuver would be to get involved in the union we already have and help create the union you want that way.

That's all well and good doh but the problem is FW has other posts, and surrogates, that are much cagier in their explanation of how they intend to represent (or actually not represent). You are 100% correct in your assertions above but the problem you and others in union leadership fail recognize is you are not dealing with truthful or transparent people, either in management or this decertification campaign.

Do you notice how they absolutely fail to give any detail but claim they are just following the example of the IBT? How so? The union published all 20 plus sections of their proposed contract. The union published all court transcripts. The union published their proposed seniority list. They published the names, cell numbers and emails of everyone involved in the POC drive or later might have access to pilot membership information or union activity. I could go on. Where is even the tiniest example of FW and gang's willingness to be even slightly transparent with their plans? So "to his credit" nothing. These decert people are not being honest and one thing you did get absolutely right is you'd be crazy to risk your career, to risk being unrepresented, on a group that refuses to be even slightly transparent.

Here's the thing: just because you and others in leadership are honest and transparent you cannot expect them to be. All they have to do is allege you weren't and this pilot group will do nothing, research nothing and remember nothing that has already proven the union to have been the taker of the high road everytime. They are great at manipulative PR. They know, as presented in the Confessions of a Union Buster, all they have to do is get the accusations out their against Union folk and they are as good as if they were actually true.

I have talked to people in leadership. I know the information is scarce sometimes because you guys do not want to speculate, you do not want mislead. But I for one would appreciate a little more of these type of clarifications like above from you guys. I would like to hear more from our negotiations committee in particular.

And one more thing to people like gulfguy or FW or even some VUH posters who want to discount the validity of what happens on FlightInfo. The whole point to the benefit of a completely anonymous board is that the truth can be spoken here. At the porn lounge FW has your info (and you're a fool if you don't think that data gets shared and somehow finds its way back to management). The vuh does not want to have honest discussion sometimes if it is critical of the power structure or decisions and is full of thin skinned posters. So yeah, I will stick to FI. Even though I have my concerns about this site as well it's better than the other options and the anonymity preserves cockpit relationships. So don't insult people who are at least paying attention.

 

[Imissmypilot]

It's not the Union's rules. It was the arbitrator's decision, and it's 60/40, not 50/50.

And is a prime example, despite the mCBA being a more pro-company document, how hard the union worked to protect the rights of all pilots as we merge together.

Do you honestly think management was happy with this clause? I'm sure Kenn was spitting nails that anyone was going to dictate to him anything about how he was going to do it or who he would put in there. It kind of screws with his plan to make it the FoK club as (or if) the program gets bigger.

Despite the union losing that 10%, it's a frigging miracle it's in there. And I thank them for it.

 

[doh]

IMMP, That is not my post from the VUH. I re posted it with permission. It does not reflect my opinion entirely. However, it does illustrate that they are attempting to leave the pilots without any underpinnings of support.

 

[Imissmypilot]

IMMP, That is not my post from the VUH. I re posted it with permission. It does not reflect my opinion entirely. However, it does illustrate that they are attempting to leave the pilots without any underpinnings of support.

OK then what is entirely your opinion?

 

[doh]

OK then what is entirely your opinion?

I believe FW is trying to deceive the pilot group. He is honest in admitting that he won't represent us, rather he will immediately cease representation. BUT, he deceives by saying the union is forcing pilots out of red label, the union refuses to work with management and by allowing the rest of his decert group to remain anonymous. Anonymity allows them to tell blatant lies while FW protects his "integrity" mask. We, the pilots (because that is who the union is), will work with management to make us a red label operation if that is what they want. But management don't want to work with the pilots and negotiate. They want to dictate and exercise total power and control over our work lives. That is what I believe. Look what they are doing to the flight attendants now! They are forcing them to bid only 7 and 8 days rotations. They will do the same with us as soon as there is no more union. But the OPs post makes one large valid point and I shared it for the purpose of driving that point home. Voting for decert means voting for ZERO representation. Many people are falling for the false claims made by the rest of the ANONYMOUS members of his group.

 

[airman2105]

Asking for a vote may not agree with you but many of the Flexjet pilots are not happy with the IBT You guys are all arrogance and false solidarity Solidarity should be to the people who you work with If they want a vote lets have a vote and may the best representation win

- - - Updated - - -

Be careful how you handle your second attempt at a fake scab list This could be misconstrued as attempting to tamper with the upcoming vote You guys should Never be making such suggestions Lets keep it legal shall we?

- - - Updated - - -

The actual numbers will be revealed soon but I will say the number of those calling for a vote is far more than expected. Why are you so afraid of offering all of the Options to the entire pilot group and letting a vote decide It all seems very American to me. What system would cry out against a vote in order to remain in power.

You want to rely on Management by Trust? How can you do that when you know history. It is very dumb.

 

[el raton]

I don’t think the numbers are there. This attempt to decert is becoming much to do about nothing. I personally was hoping it would happen, but not enough people are interested.

Flex pilots will regret supporting this union.

 

[doh]

Rat, I’m not going to underestimate these guys.

 

[doh]

The most important thing to remember is you are NOT voting for an in-house union, you are voting for NO representation if you vote for decertification. The 3% raise for Flexjet pilots, the signing bonus, the last day 14 hour limit rule and all of the rest of the work rules go away. Rat, I’ve got another question for you. If this contract is so awful, why don’t management push to have it in effect? If it is so awful, won’t it drive pilots to vote for decert? Hmmm, maybe they don’t want it in effect because they know it will have the opposite effect...

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I don’t think the numbers are there. This attempt to decert is becoming much to do about nothing. I personally was hoping it would happen, but not enough people are interested.

Flex pilots will regret supporting this union.

I worked for 2N without a contract, and I can tell you this was not a nice place to work. The talking point from the other side is that 2N wasn't here then, but he was still on the board. We had in-house committees in the past and we got absolutely nowhere. Just send in the card so we get a voice? The 1108 speaks for me.. And I know that I'm not a good enough negotiator to go up against KR alone. Have a Merry Christmas.