Anti-gunners....chew on this

[hyper]

Desertpilot,

Nobody's going to come running out of a cockpit with a gun. The ENTIRE point is last line of defense.

Did you actually read my previous post? Here it is again because you obviously missed it:

"Obviously, I'm pro-gun. But all of my statements should assume the existance of a comprehensive training program. I am NOT for pilots having guns (or anyone for that matter) that cannot demonstrate an acceptable level of proficiency. We must do this to have a CWP, so should anyone else."

Ummmm, I believe I mentioned that not all pilots should have them. You carry a permit for the gun, you go to regular check through your local feds or law enforcement to demonstrate proficiency. It certainly isn't impossible.

Bigflyer,

"1) If you cant even get a pair of tweezers through security, how do you suppose we'll be able to slip through with a hand gun? "

Dude, don't you read the news? People are getting through with guns all the time.......and we are in a heightened state of security! CVG and JFK were among the worst with a 50% failure rate in detecting objects planted to resemble guns and bombs.
How many folks filter through just those two airports alone each day? It is sad, but you can't stick your head in the sand and pretend it ain't happening.

"For those of you that live in a constant state of fear and paranoia and insist on "packing" when you go to McDonalds or Chucky-Cheese... Unless you have said weapon in your hand don't ever think that you cannot be dissarmed. Also, answer the following if you can."

I don't live in a constant state of fear and I don't pack when I go to mcdonalds, but I'll bet many more are than you'd care to think about.

I've said it before, I'll gladly give mine up when the criminals give theirs.

 

[atpcliff]

Guns already HAVE been carried

Hi!

Most people now don't know this (I just found out last year). Previously, pilots were ALLOWED by the FAA to carry loaded handguns with them in the airport and in the cockpit.

I jumpseated with an older TWA captain, who always carried a loaded revolver in his flight case, until (about 1980, I think?), the FAA disallowed the practice.

A number of pilots carried guns for years. How many passengers or flight crew, or general public in the airports were accidently shot by these pilots over the years? 0.

How many were injured or killed by accident? 0.

I want a gun.

Cliff
GRB

PS-This captain said that if those pilots in the highjacked aircraft had guns, the planes would'nt have been highjacked, and wouldn't have destroyed the towers or the pentagon.

 

[hyper]

135 already states that with approval from the c.ert. holder, crewmemers may carry

 

[chawbein]

A slight conundrum...

Do both the pilot and the FO get to pack heat? If only one has the gun, who gets to shoot the "hijackers"???
One possible problem that could arise might be that the pilot and FO get into an arguement about who gets to shoot, and then result being that nobody shoots...

Just kidding, but really, do both get to carry a weapon? It is really a moot arguement, because I'm sure that it will never happen again, at least as long as there are people like me on the plane.

 

[desert pilot]

hyper-scenario 2-thru the video cam you see the gang raping the fa-what do you do?

 

[skydiverdriver]

"How do you expect to get a gun past security if we cannot get in with a pair of tweezers," has to be about the stupidest statement I have ever heard. Get a clue, if we get approval to carry weapons, we won't have to sneek them in, they will let us pass with them. I can't believe someone would say such a thing.

 

[hyper]

desert,

"hyper-scenario 2-thru the video cam you see the gang raping the fa-what do you do?"

What would yo do? Frankly, I don't open the door for nuthin'. You gonna sacrifice your crew, plane and passengers for 1 person that, as you put it, is getting "gang raped"?

bigflyer,

You got pecs......I got teks. Nothing's fair in love and war dude.

 

[BluesClues]

If I have to start carrying a gun to work, am I still gonna have to strip off half my uniform every time I go to work?

 

[onetaco]

The reason cops don't often get disarmed is because they have their weapons out in the open where they can access them very quickly, not to mention they are trained in weapons and self defense, unlike your average pilot.

I don't remember reading anywhere that the pilots piece will be concealed. Do you? Do don't remember reading anywhere that pilots will not receive training? In fact quite the opposite.

 

[TXflyer]

Pilots need some kind of defense against psycho Qu'ran quoting fanatics. A gun does the trick. A few well-placed caps to the head will destroy any well-planned terrorist plot. I just wonder why it took a major tragedy to get this legislation introduced and passed. It should have been done 20 years ago. Just another example of how knee-jerk legislation works.

 

[publisher]

problem

The problem with this whole senario is on the ground and not in the air.

Are we going to let the pilots carry the guns. Well there is not much enthusiasm for that part.

Second, are we going to put it in a supposedly secure box on an aircraft. Now let's see, how many cockpit keys are out there roaming around. Like no one would ever compromise this situation.

So we are either going to have a bunch of "trained pilots" walking around in terminals where they can be over powered and their weapon taken and damage done or

We are going to place guns all over the airport in these little boxes so they can be taken.

When the guy starts banging on the door, put the pedal to metal, 30 degrees nose up, pressurization off, and practive aerobatics til everyone is unconsious.

The guns nor pilots themselves are the problem, the problem comes on the ground and in the application

 

[flx757]

Re: problem

When the guy starts banging on the door, put the pedal to metal, 30 degrees nose up, pressurization off, and practive aerobatics til everyone is unconsious.

Oh yeah.....you betcha.....that'll be the first thing I try in my 757 at 390.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

I was under the impression that the guns will be kept in the cockpit or in ops. So the security checkpoint arguments are moot.

Let's just let an F-16 shoot down the aircraft. Then the little old lady on 1A won't catch a stray bullet. Much safer.

 

[BigFlyr]

"How do you expect to get a gun past security if we cannot get in with a pair of tweezers," has to be about the stupidest statement I have ever heard. Get a clue, if we get approval to carry weapons, we won't have to sneek them in, they will let us pass with them. I can't believe someone would say such a thing.

Ok... What is stupid here is not the statement but the way it was interpreted. OBVIOUSLY, if it were approved to bring guns into the cockpit, from the outside, they would not be smuggled through. HOWEVER, there would have to be a checkpoint manned by trained personnel to approve said passage of the weapon carried by the qualified, trained and certified pilot who is responsible for the safe handling of said weapon through his thourogh training in an approved training program... IT IS NOT FEASIBLE...

Here is another option... The gun is a permanent part of the aircraft... attached by cable to a readily accessible location in the cockpit and loaded with bullets that will not penetrate the fusilage or the windows. I think that would be possible... But not, every pilot out there packing a gun... Good luck trying to get a jumpseat!

 

[AWACoff]

Desert Pilot,
Scenario number 3. The Flight Attendant is getting gang raped. Suddenly a large number of other passengers on the flight help the flight crew subdue the perpetrator.

Guess what...since September 11th, every time (every time that has made the news that is) a situation has gotten out of control in the aircraft (shoe bomber, nutcase on the South American flight, etc, etc...), the PASSENGERS have stepped up and defended the aircraft. Desert Pilot, if you have any rational argument or scenario that can show us why we do not need to defend the cockpit, please let us all know. We are "dying" to hear it