Another SVFR question -

[minitour]

Today the cieling was at 1200 broken with 10sm vis for a while. My CFI asked if I would be comfortable with getting that close to clouds if we got a SVFR clearance (class D).

So, I called tower (on the phone) and asked if they were expecting any IFRs that would prevent us from going SVFR around the pattern.

I've never been giving an ass chewing like that before...

He was telling me that the field was VFR (which it was...legally) and I needed to look at the AIM. Now...last time I checked, in class D airspace, you had to be at least 500' below clouds....we wouldn't have been, so would a SVFR not have been the way to go?

-mini

 

[qmaster3]

Sounds like your CFI got ya good. Next time tell that bastard to call.

 

[minitour]

...but at this point do I still not understand a simple concept of SVFR?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Perhaps you should call the Tower Chief, tell him what happened and ask him to read section 7.5.1.b. of the ATC handbook to the controller who chewed you out, and we'll see who get's chewed out next.:

==================================================
SVFR operations may be authorized for aircraft operating in or transiting a Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E surface area when the primary airport is reporting VFR but the pilot advises that basic VFR cannot be maintained.
==================================================

 

[minitour]

midlife,

Thanks...I knew that was right.

-mini

 

[hawg2hawk]

Why couldn't you have been 500 feet below the clouds if it was BKN 012?
Are you sure you have to be if you're SVFR in Class D?

 

[siucavflight]

midlife,

Thanks...I knew that was right.

-mini

Just a question but why at 1200 broken would you have not been able to stay 500 below the clouds? And once you left the class D I am going to assume that you were in class E, were you able to maintain 500' below? If not then it would not matter if you were following regs in the class D because you would be busting them in E. The controller should not have chewed you out because you can request a SVFR at any time but in this case it was not really necessary IMO.

 

[Visceral]

Just a question but why at 1200 broken would you have not been able to stay 500 below the clouds?

I think he wants to fly at traffic pattern altitude for most of the traffic pattern, and it is probably higher than 700.

 

[minitour]

I think he wants to fly at traffic pattern altitude for most of the traffic pattern, and it is probably higher than 700.

Yep. Wanted to work on power-off 180s and wanted to do them at 1000' AGL. Strictly pattern work, not leaving the delta...

-mini

 

[siucavflight]

Yep. Wanted to work on power-off 180s and wanted to do them at 1000' AGL. Strictly pattern work, not leaving the delta...

-mini

Then he should not have yelled at you, after all you were doing your job and following the regs. I would put a call into the ATC chief of the tower and let him know what happened.

 

[minitour]

K...thanks. I was just making sure I didn't misunderstand the regs...

I figured it'd be easier to call on the phone to make sure he wasn't expecting any conflicts...aparently not

 

[Lead Sled]

...I was just making sure I didn't misunderstand the regs...

Mini...
Why not just file IFR and request multiple contact approaches?

'Sled

 

[minitour]

Mini...
Why not just file IFR and request multiple contact approaches?

'Sled

Inop Turn Coordinator & HSI (the DG part...the Nav function works great)

oh well...it cleared up and we got to go anyway...

-mini

 

[qmaster3]

Mini,

If you call the tower and talk to the chief. Let us know WHY. My low time self is trying to avoid a$$ chewings like that.

 

[minitour]

ya...I dunno.

Normally, I'd let an ass ripping just roll off my back, but this is the same guy that bitched at me on freq for calling up Ground and using AIM recommended language...supposedly in our Ops Specs at school there's a "correct" way to call up ground...the FAR/AIM doesn't count with him I guess

oh well

-mini

 

[Lead Sled]

Pilots aren't the only folks who fall into the "non-standard" phraseology traps. Back when I was the east-coast chief pilot for the company that I worked for I was cleared for the approach at one of the airports we frequented. We were in a Lear 35 and from our position, it was appropriate to perform a procedure turn - which we did. Half-way through the turn, the controller asked us what we were doing. He mentioned that regardless of where we were at, they didn't want anyone doing the PT and that we should only perform it if given express clearance to do so. When I got on the ground I called the supervisor and basically reamed him - in a very polite and respectful way. They also has a few other "non-standard" quirks which we discussed at well. At first his defense was that "we don't do things that way around here". My response was - "Well, I'm not from around here". We kissed and made up and they started using standard phraseology.

'Sled

 

[HMR]

Mini- Are you sure he wasn't mad because it was the umpteenth time you'd called the tower this week with questions, i.e. Gallons of paint used to paint runway numbers? Circumference of the tower? Blade height on the airport lawnmower? And other things that you and your roommate discuss.

 

[minitour]

Mini- Are you sure he wasn't mad because it was the umpteenth time you'd called the tower this week with questions, i.e. Gallons of paint used to paint runway numbers? Circumference of the tower? Blade height on the airport lawnmower? And other things that you and your roommate discuss.

har har har

 

[JAFI]

Mini, As was explained to me by a tower QC person, Controllers do not make mistakes, they are called "operational errors". When a controller makes one big enough, they are taken off the line and put back into training untill the "error" is corrected. There was some incentive to stay on line, something about the difference in pay in training and working a position in the tower. Maybe an ATC guy can explain this better than me.


JAFI

 

[minitour]

Mini, As was explained to me by a tower QC person, Controllers do not make mistakes, they are called "operational errors". When a controller makes one big enough, they are taken off the line and put back into training untill the "error" is corrected. There was some incentive to stay on line, something about the difference in pay in training and working a position in the tower. Maybe an ATC guy can explain this better than me.


JAFI

I don't get it...