Another news release from APA and ALPA

[exeagle]

Release #02.023

April 1, 2002

Pilot Leaders of American Eagle and American Airlines Call for Job Security Through Transition to Single Carrier

WASHINGTON, DC---The following letter was released today by the pilot leaders of the American Eagle Master Executive Council (MEC) of the Air Line Pilots Association, and the Allied Pilots Association (APA), representing American Airlines pilots:

Fellow Pilots,

Over the last several weeks, AMR management has made several confusing and misleading statements with regard to the ASM and block-hour limitation provision of the American Airlines pilots’ contract. We want to set the record straight.

On February 1, American Eagle management said that the only way for Eagle to stay underneath the ASM cap was to cancel unprofitable cities, reduce frequencies, park aircraft, and consider selling Executive Airlines. Such actions would clearly result in the furlough of American Eagle pilots. As you know, the Allied Pilots Association made a proposal to management on January 18 that was designed to address management’s stated need to preserve commuter feed to American Airlines and keep the carrier’s recovery going strong. The ultimate effect of APA’s proposal would have been to combine American Airlines and American Eagle. It has never been APA’s intention to cause any additional furloughs at American Eagle or to use this proposal as short-term "furlough protection" for the American Airlines pilots. The proposal is designed to meet APA’s long-term goals by eliminating any scope concerns.

APA made its proposal in response to management’s request for relief from the ASM and block-hour caps that are in effect due to the furlough of American Airlines pilots. American Eagle President Peter Bowler, commenting on the proposal, said that he "was a little confused about how it works." He went on to say that it was not a realistic proposal and that if it were good idea, someone else would have done it. In his February 13 message, American Eagle VP Flight Operations Ed Criner expressed "great concern" about the "continued job security" of Eagle pilots if management were to agree to APA’s proposal. "If APA’s offer was accepted, it is foreseeable that Eagle pilots would continually be displaced from their equipment and hundreds of our pilots would be furloughed," Criner wrote. American Airlines management responded by indicating that it did not have any interest in even discussing APA’s proposal. Criner’s "great concern" about the prospect of displacements and furloughs is nothing more than a classic fear grenade with no factual basis.

In a letter to American Eagle employees on March 14, Bowler said "…unless there is a breakthrough in discussions between AA and its pilots union, we may still be required to proceed with a sale of our Executive and Miami operations at some point in the future." It is hard to imagine that anyone would see this for anything other that what it is: an attempt to circumvent the ASM and block-hour caps. At best, selling off Eagle piecemeal in this fashion would be a definite gamble that does nothing to address the longer-term problem or to enhance shareholder value. Rather than trying to negotiate a solution with APA, AMR management has pulled from their playbook the same old whipsaw tactic. Our pilot groups will not be fooled, and we will not allow management to divide our collective membership.

One of APA’s biggest concerns is the continued outsourcing of mainline flying (flying that is not intended to provide feed) to American Eagle and other commuter air carriers. AMR management has made it clear that "small jets" such as those flown by American Eagle and the American Connection are revenue generators and not feeder aircraft. In 1987, the APA agreed to a "Commuter Air Carrier" exemption to their scope clause. It was never APA’s intention to exempt a major airline such as American Eagle from the scope clause. By combining American Eagle into American Airlines, Eagle would no longer be a competitor to AA.

Meanwhile, there is a very real, ongoing threat to Eagle pilots’ job security in the form of American Connection carriers Trans States and Chautauqua. These carriers have been replacing Eagle in a variety of markets. If not for the ASM and block-hour caps in the American Airlines pilots’ contract, it is conceivable that the outsourcing of Eagle’s flying to the American Connection carriers might well be accelerated.

The leadership at APA and the Eagle ALPA MEC remain convinced that the best solution for all concerned is to transition to one carrier operated under the American Airlines banner. Although management decided not to enter discussions in response to APA’s January 18 proposal, American management and the APA will be addressing the commuter affiliate issue during the course of their current Section 6 negotiations.

As this situation continues to develop, we will keep you informed.



Sincerely,

/s/
Captain Jim Higgins
American Eagle ALPA MEC Chairman /s/
Captain John E. Darrah
APA President

ALPA is the world’s oldest and largest airline pilot union. It represents 64,000 airline pilots at 45 carriers in the U.S. and Canada.

The Allied Pilots Association (APA) serves as collective bargaining agent for the 11,000 pilots of American Airlines. Headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas, APA was founded in 1963. The union’s web site address is www.alliedpilots.org.

# # #

American Eagle MEC Contact: James Magee, (972) 896-5317

APA Contact: Gregg Overman, (817) 302-2250

 

[Cardinal]

This is really a beautiful thing to see. Amazing that two different unions from two different carriers have "seen the light." The contrast is glaring, seeing that a single union's members can't get on the same page in the Delta house, even the single MEC at Continental hasn't yet put something like this on the table. Hurrah for the boys with the silver stripes!

 

[rudderdog]

Hurrah for the boys with the silver stripes!

Uh....them there stripes is made of platinum, not silver. At least that's what one of them boys said on the crew bus.

 

[surplus1]

exeagle

If you are an Eagle pilot, what is YOUR opinion of this press release?

 

[skydiverdriver]

I think if this happens, and American is all one airline, they will be a very strong competitor. They may beat Delta to the punch, but I'm sure everyone else will see their success and join the party later.

I think it's funny when they say "if it's such a good idea, then someone else would have done it." Well,what if everyone said that? What if the Wright brothers said that? Don't you think that's funny? Do you think a CEO of a company, when shown an idea that would make his company more profitable than the others, would say, let's wait until someone else does it first? Then we'll know it's a good idea? Not likely. Good luck to you guys.

 

[exeagle]

Surplus1, I am a furloughed eagle pilot who can not speak for others, but I sure do think it is ashame that amr management will not even look into this merger one bit. From what Ive heard, alot of Eagle pilots are very cautious about the jet flying going to the American pilots and all the eagle pilots being attached to the bottom. On the other hand, many feel this is the only way, or one of the ways, to prevent further eagle furloughs. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Draginass]

We're a long way off from AMR combining the companies. I don't think APA's scope is enough of an economic incentive for management -- nor is AE's scope, even assuming that ALPA gets the CHQ and TSA contracts declared violations.

Delta will obviously beat AMR to the benefits of combining companies when they strap Surplus to a chair in the HQ basement and "make him talk."

 

[skydiverdriver]

Lol...that's funny dragon. Keep up the good work.

 

[SF3CA]

I think the more pressure that we (alpa and apa) put on AMR, the more likely they will be inclined to spin eagle off. They are already moving the MIA operation to the EXE certificate to spin that off. I think they are under alot of pressure from wall street to increase value of the AMR stock. Since the business traveler is very slow to return, a quick way to make some cash and boost the stock is sell Eagle. It will be just like co-ex, we will get close......then management will drop the bomb/wedge between the groups.

SF3CA

 

[Draginass]

If AMR spins off Eagle, the I think there may be code-share problems with mainline. I'm not a contract expert, but I don't think it's as simple as some think. In any case, management would probably do it anyway, create a fait acompli, and go the normal route by telling the unions if they don't like it, "tough, sue us."

 

[surplus1]

Surplus1, I am a furloughed eagle pilot who can not speak for others, but I sure do think it is ashame that amr management will not even look into this merger one bit. From what Ive heard, alot of Eagle pilots are very cautious about the jet flying going to the American pilots and all the eagle pilots being attached to the bottom. On the other hand, many feel this is the only way, or one of the ways, to prevent further eagle furloughs. I guess we'll see what happens.

Thanks, that's interesting. The part about preventing further Eagle furloughs, that is.

I just wonder out loud if all the Eagle jets are transferred to AA,to be flown by AA pilots, how is that going to prevent further Eagle furloughs? That would mean Eagle would have to buy a replacement turboprop for each jet transfered to American.

Maybe there's a pony hiding somewhere in that APA proposal, but I see the idea that it will benefit Eagle pilots as a pipe dream.

Since you are already furloughed, if that were to happen you'd best start mailing a lot of resumes.

What I find even more amazing is the ALPA spin by joining in this press release. Fascinating.

 

[surplus1]

Delta will obviously beat AMR to the benefits of combining companies when they strap Surplus to a chair in the HQ basement and "make him talk."

I don't know anything. (with German accent)

Besides, I don't know too many Navy dudes or conservative Republicans that could get much our of an AF type, let alone a Democrat liberal.

Good one Dragin.

 

[Steve McCroskey]

Surplus
I don't know more about this proposal than anybody else, but I think the future furlough protection for AE pilots would be a result of dropping the code share agreements with American Connection, the removal of the ASM cap, and projected growth with the SJ's. The proposal called for three phases. 1. Transfer of CRJ 70 to AA 2. Change all existing orders of EMB 140 back to EMB 145 to be flown by remaining APA furloughed pilots and whatever Eagle pilots could hold the jet 3. Transfer of all turbo-prop flying to AA with the remaining eagle pilots. Who knows what the reality may be but's that how my warped mind understands it.

 

[justApilot]

Surplus.......By combining the 2 seniority lists there would be no reason for the current scope clause. Scope is what is limiting the growth at Eagle. AA would be free to buy the RJ that they really want...and lots of them. More planes = more jobs. I think it is really that simple. But...hey....I am justApilot....what do I know!?

 

[3green]

Very Big

This is a VERY VERY VERY BIG item, not just for APA, but AMR and Eagle pilots. Only time will tell. Anyone know when section 6 will wrap up.

 

[Draginass]

There is a lot more than AE related elements to the APA scope clause, including ALL flying on behalf of AA will be performed by pilots on the AA seniority list. That would eliminate outsourcers or domestic code shares.

I wouldn't spend too many brain cells worry about combining AE and AA, though. Judging by the company's attitude, I think it's a long way off, if ever.

 

[Airline Pilot27]

Its seems we are inching towards the inevitable. A couple of years ago you would have never been able to get our MEC's together unless it was in a boxing ring. I believe integration would be the best thing to happen to our profession in decades. Time will tell if management will play along but ultimately they will have to.

 

[EagleRJ]

Uh....them there stripes is made of platinum, not silver. At least that's what one of them boys said on the crew bus.

Hmm... Uniforms told me they were made of shredded AOL trial CDs. And here I thought I was being ecologically correct in using recycled trash!


I'm sure most Eagle pilots, like me, are cautiously optimistic about this. Considering the present state of the industry, I have to say it's the most promising direction for the Eagle pilot group. AMR may not want to talk about the idea, but they will be compelled to soon, since it's becoming clear that it will be at the top of the APA's agenda during negotiations. The next few months are going to be very interesting...

 

[surplus1]

Surplus
I don't know more about this proposal than anybody else, but I think the future furlough protection for AE pilots would be a result of dropping the code share agreements with American Connection, the removal of the ASM cap, and projected growth with the SJ's. The proposal called for three phases. 1. Transfer of CRJ 70 to AA 2. Change all existing orders of EMB 140 back to EMB 145 to be flown by remaining APA furloughed pilots and whatever Eagle pilots could hold the jet 3. Transfer of all turbo-prop flying to AA with the remaining eagle pilots. Who knows what the reality may be but's that how my warped mind understands it.

Steve,

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not against combining the pilot groups of AA and Eagle. I also realize it would elimininate the type of Scope that AA currently has (the ASM cap). The devil is in the details of how this would be accomplished.

I also understand the 3-pase concept that you repeat above. What bothers me is what happens to the current Eagle pilots in the process.

Phase 1, does not include any Eagle pilots. Therefore those AE pilots now flying that equipment would be bumped back. Causing further redundancy and more furloughs off the bottom of the AE list.

Phase 2, transfers all the remaining AE jets to mainline "to be flown by remaining APA furloughed pilots and whatever Eagle pilots could hold the jet." That sounds OK, but unless I'm all wet what it "means" is that no current AE pilot is likely to be able to "hold" any of those positions. Do not forget that "remaining APA furloughed pilots" now includes the TWA furloughed pilots too (who are now APA pilots). So, it follows all the AE pilots bump back to the turboprops, which equals still more furloughs at AE.

Phase 3, transfers all turboprop flying with the remaining Eagle pilots. Sounds good again but, when will that happen and how many AE pilots will be "remaining" by the time that it does? In my opinion the answer is very few and none of them will be senior enough at AA to hold anything but the right seat in the same jet airplane they now fly as Captain.

I admit this deal would solve a lot of problems for the AA pilots, but I don't see what problem it will solve for the Eagle pilots. Take a look at your list, note who is flying jets now, compare that to the number of furloughed pilots at AA (which includes TWA). Then take a look at the junior AA/TWA pilots who would be better off in the left seat of the SJs. When you're done with the math, tell me what's left for the AE pilots and where they fit.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. One final question. Has any Eagle pilot seen and read the actual document that contains the entire proposal or are you making your judgments based on the summary provided by the APA?

Inquiring minds would like to know that answer too. All that glitters is not gold.

It seems to me that knowing what the reality may be in matters like this is of the utmost importance to a pilot that wants to remain an employed pilot.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus.......By combining the 2 seniority lists there would be no reason for the current scope clause. Scope is what is limiting the growth at Eagle. AA would be free to buy the RJ that they really want...and lots of them. More planes = more jobs. I think it is really that simple. But...hey....I am justApilot....what do I know!?

I'm just a pilot too. See my post to Steve (above) and then if you think I'm all wet, tell me why please.

Scope is necessary and will still be there. Scope in its present form is what is limiting growth at Eagle and to a lesser extent at AA as well. IMHO, AA hasn't lost a single job as a result of Eagles existence.

Combining the lists has risks as is always the case. How the combining is done is what determines whether the benefit is worth the down side. In the 3-phase plan, I'm having trouble determining what benefit will accrue to Eagle pilots. No job doesn't strike me as one of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong and show me why I'm wrong. Thanks.

 

[justApilot]

I briefly looked on the website for the proposal that John Darrah sent to AA management about relief on scope. I could not find it. Basically it said you want relief on scope...this is what you have to do...combine the 2 lists. yes, there were 3 steps. What it comes down to is that ALL flying will be done by APA pilots. This is where the confusion/misunderstanding began. Darrah sent another letter to Eagle with a better explaination of what the proposal was and was not about. It is not a grab at the EAGLE flying or Eagle jobs. I see one list as a win win for Eagle, APA and AMR. Eagle pilots become part of the mainline(better pay, retirement, etc) and APA and AMR both have one less scope issue to fight over. With that big scope issue taken care of AMR can focus on what they need to do to make money.


Something that the Eagle pilots that have aspirations of flying for AA should think about. If Eagle continues to grow (more planes,routes) at the expense of AA flying (fewer planes,routes), you greatly reduce your chances of flying at AA. Good luck to everyone involved.

 

[Frank Bama]

Please explain to me how American Connection is "Replacing Eagle in a variety of markets," according to the press release? How can Trans States and Chautauqua replace these routes and markets when they were never Eagle's to begin with? Yes they fly in STL feeding American. But how can it be said that TSA or CHQ is a "threat to Eagle's job security" when a 1/4 of the Connection pilots are on furlough and almost as much airplanes parked? Maybe I'm reading the release in the wrong way, but it still doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[DaveGriffin]

April Fools joke

The release date for the announcement is 01 April. Is this press release an April Fool's gag?

 

[EagleRJ]

There is no "full proposal" that the APA prepared along with the January 18 proposal. What was released was all there was. The idea was to invite the three parties to the table to work out the specifics.

 

[FLYnMONKEYS]

I'm all for one list! As a current AA furloughee I can't wait to get my hands on the CRJ-700. Can someone from Eagle tell me what your contract says it will pay? Go APA!!!!

 

[80drvr]

IMHO, AA hasn't lost a single job as a result of Eagles existence.

Correct me if I'm wrong and show me why I'm wrong. Thanks.

AA has lost many routes to AE and consequently jobs. Eagle has replaced AA on numerous flights out of PHX, LAX, SJC, DCA and RDU to many former narrowbody destinations. I'm not talking about new long range service to thin markets. When you look at growth over the last decade, Eagles seat mile growth is somewhere around 20% while AA's is around 2%. These are approximate numbers, so anyone who has the latest actual numbers please join the fray.

 

[surplus1]

There is no "full proposal" that the APA prepared along with the January 18 proposal. What was released was all there was. The idea was to invite the three parties to the table to work out the specifics.

Are you serious?

Do you mean to tell me that you guys are ready to put your jobs on the line based an a press release summary of a proposal from the APA that does not exist?

No personal offense intended, but I didn't think there was still any professional pilot left anywhere that was gullible enough to do that. Guess I have a lot to learn.

If there really is "no full proposal" and all you have is a "summary press release" followed by another APA/ALPA "press" release, then somebody is selling you a used car driven only to church on Sunday by an 85 year old lady. In view of the history at AE and the 16 year "industry leading" good deal that somebody sold you before, I would think you'd be more alert.

Tell me your kidding please, I can't believe all this hype over something that doesn't really exist.

 

[Draginass]

DaveGriffin -
Here's your April Fools news release:

APA announced 1 Apr the details of a proposed integration plan they submit to the company's regional carrier for their consideration. The proposal includes full DOH bidding seniority with no fences, and pushing the company for full retro pay for those flow-through pilots and other pilots with applications in with mainline, as well as those who unsuccessfully interviewed with mainline at any time during the past 16 years. During a recent vote, the APA also will seek reaffiliation with ALPA. A mainline spokesman said that although historically integrations use pay, benefits, equipment, and career expectations as baselines for integrating seniority lists, the mainline pilots feel that is grossly unfair to fellow professional pilots, regardless of experience level, previous work history, or complexity and size of equipment flown. In the future, the company is also being urged to favor minimally qualified pilots instead of pilots with previous military experience. "We feel that military pilots tend to be rigid whereas minimally qualified pilots are easier to mold into our corporate ethos." The spokesman also went on to say that this proposal is just an openers, and that there is more flexibility should the regional pilots find any elements in the proposal objectionable.

 

[surplus1]

AA has lost many routes to AE and consequently jobs. Eagle has replaced AA on numerous flights out of PHX, LAX, SJC, DCA and RDU to many former narrowbody destinations.

Are you trying to tell me that every time the Company changes equipment on a route it sends the airplane that used to fly that route to be parked in the desert? Have those equipment substitutions resulted in a reduction in your block hours? If not, you haven't lost any jobs. Your airplane is just flying to a different place.

The recent reduction in your ASMs is caused by the downturn in the economy and the 9-11 attacks on our country. Neither of those events have anything to do with Eagle. They are also losing business for the same reasons. If Eagle wasn't there to keep some passengers coming, your ASM would have been reduced even further. The exact opposite of what you claim.

When you look at growth over the last decade, Eagles seat mile growth is somewhere around 20% while AA's is around 2%. These are approximate numbers, so anyone who has the latest actual numbers please join the fray.

So there has been a different growth rate at AE than at AA. How does that equate to your losing jobs? Do you actually believe that if AE did not exist it's 20% ASM growth would suddenly appear on the bottom of the AA ledger and make your growth 22%? I hope that's not what you think, 'cause that's not how it works.

AE is a much smaller company and it is much easier to show a higher percentage growth rate in a small company than it is in a large one. You are looking at apples and comparing them to oranges. I don't have the numbers to do the math, but if you didn't have AE it is just as propable as not that your 2% positive could have been 2% negative, without the feed generated by AE.

There are markets in which large aircraft (which includes your AA narrow body equipment) are simply unprofitable and smaller aircraft make money on the same route. If I followed your hypothesis, all the airplanes would be triple sevens. How many jobs would you lose then?

The CASM of the small aircraft is much higher than the CASM of your larger equipment. You can bet your bottom dollar that the second your management knows that it can show a higher yield by using bigger airframes, it will take AE off the route in a heart beat and give it to AA. That's what it should do and that would NOT mean you were taking anything from AE.

AE does not reduce your growth rate, it actually maintains or improves it. That is why management operates AE. They aren't busy trying to figure out how to replace you, they're busy trying to make a buck.

I think we pilots too often forget that the purpose of the operation is to make profit for the shareholders, not provide jobs for us. I'm about as far from being a management puke as you can get, but I'm not without common sense either.

Your airline just grew by a big margin due to the acquisition of TWA. Not too much before that it grew due to the purchase of Reno. How many of you do you think might be furloughed today if those things had not happened?

I don't think you should outsource your flying, but the fact that your contract allows some of the flying to be done by a subsidiary is not the company's fault and it is not Eagle's fault. It is your fault (along with that of every other major airline except SWA).

All those little airplanes that you're complaining about (Eagle) should have been flown by AA pilots from day one. You didn't want that (for whatever reason) and so you got what you wanted (the creation of a subsidiary). Now you're complaining about it. Too late, the horse is already out of the barn.

I agree there's a need to fix it and get all the airplanes in one stable, but that means the Eagle pilots should come with their airplanes. ALL of them! It does not mean that you should transfer their airplanes to you and put them on the street.

Sorry for the rant. Sometimes it is just necessary to tell it like it is and fortunately I don't have to be "politically correct". I am not an AE pilot or an AA pilot.

This whole thing is a big problem and it needs to be fixed. It can't be fixed by one group of pilots shafting another group of pilots just because they can.

I think your group is on the right track, i.e., all the flying done by one pilot group. However, the methodology summarized sounds veryssuspect to me, not like a workable deal. That's why I asked for the "full proposal." I can't form a legitimate opinon based on a press release. The AE pilots on this board seem to think they can. God help them.

Best regards.

 

[Steve McCroskey]

Surplus
Unless I missed a post I haven't read of any AE pilots endorsing or blindly signing on to the APA proposal on this web board. You asked for the details and the few available have been provided. Give the AE pilots a little credit for having enough sense not to march ignorantly into an agreement such as this (we have been burnt before ie, current contract). The AE pilots I have spoken with are cautiously optimistic about the idea of one listing but are not willing to jeopardize their futures with out concrete details. Anyway the cart has gotten before the horse, unless AMR changes their previous stance on this issue it may go no further than the current proposal and this web board. Thanks for your thoughts on all of your posts, you really seem to think things through before responding. Just remember others put the same amount of thought into their respective futures.