Another news release from APA and ALPA

[surplus1]

Surplus1, I am a furloughed eagle pilot who can not speak for others, but I sure do think it is ashame that amr management will not even look into this merger one bit. From what Ive heard, alot of Eagle pilots are very cautious about the jet flying going to the American pilots and all the eagle pilots being attached to the bottom. On the other hand, many feel this is the only way, or one of the ways, to prevent further eagle furloughs. I guess we'll see what happens.

Thanks, that's interesting. The part about preventing further Eagle furloughs, that is.

I just wonder out loud if all the Eagle jets are transferred to AA,to be flown by AA pilots, how is that going to prevent further Eagle furloughs? That would mean Eagle would have to buy a replacement turboprop for each jet transfered to American.

Maybe there's a pony hiding somewhere in that APA proposal, but I see the idea that it will benefit Eagle pilots as a pipe dream.

Since you are already furloughed, if that were to happen you'd best start mailing a lot of resumes.

What I find even more amazing is the ALPA spin by joining in this press release. Fascinating.

 

[surplus1]

Delta will obviously beat AMR to the benefits of combining companies when they strap Surplus to a chair in the HQ basement and "make him talk."

I don't know anything. (with German accent)

Besides, I don't know too many Navy dudes or conservative Republicans that could get much our of an AF type, let alone a Democrat liberal.

Good one Dragin.

 

[Steve McCroskey]

Surplus
I don't know more about this proposal than anybody else, but I think the future furlough protection for AE pilots would be a result of dropping the code share agreements with American Connection, the removal of the ASM cap, and projected growth with the SJ's. The proposal called for three phases. 1. Transfer of CRJ 70 to AA 2. Change all existing orders of EMB 140 back to EMB 145 to be flown by remaining APA furloughed pilots and whatever Eagle pilots could hold the jet 3. Transfer of all turbo-prop flying to AA with the remaining eagle pilots. Who knows what the reality may be but's that how my warped mind understands it.

 

[justApilot]

Surplus.......By combining the 2 seniority lists there would be no reason for the current scope clause. Scope is what is limiting the growth at Eagle. AA would be free to buy the RJ that they really want...and lots of them. More planes = more jobs. I think it is really that simple. But...hey....I am justApilot....what do I know!?

 

[3green]

Very Big

This is a VERY VERY VERY BIG item, not just for APA, but AMR and Eagle pilots. Only time will tell. Anyone know when section 6 will wrap up.

 

[Draginass]

There is a lot more than AE related elements to the APA scope clause, including ALL flying on behalf of AA will be performed by pilots on the AA seniority list. That would eliminate outsourcers or domestic code shares.

I wouldn't spend too many brain cells worry about combining AE and AA, though. Judging by the company's attitude, I think it's a long way off, if ever.

 

[Airline Pilot27]

Its seems we are inching towards the inevitable. A couple of years ago you would have never been able to get our MEC's together unless it was in a boxing ring. I believe integration would be the best thing to happen to our profession in decades. Time will tell if management will play along but ultimately they will have to.

 

[EagleRJ]

Uh....them there stripes is made of platinum, not silver. At least that's what one of them boys said on the crew bus.

Hmm... Uniforms told me they were made of shredded AOL trial CDs. And here I thought I was being ecologically correct in using recycled trash!


I'm sure most Eagle pilots, like me, are cautiously optimistic about this. Considering the present state of the industry, I have to say it's the most promising direction for the Eagle pilot group. AMR may not want to talk about the idea, but they will be compelled to soon, since it's becoming clear that it will be at the top of the APA's agenda during negotiations. The next few months are going to be very interesting...

 

[surplus1]

Surplus
I don't know more about this proposal than anybody else, but I think the future furlough protection for AE pilots would be a result of dropping the code share agreements with American Connection, the removal of the ASM cap, and projected growth with the SJ's. The proposal called for three phases. 1. Transfer of CRJ 70 to AA 2. Change all existing orders of EMB 140 back to EMB 145 to be flown by remaining APA furloughed pilots and whatever Eagle pilots could hold the jet 3. Transfer of all turbo-prop flying to AA with the remaining eagle pilots. Who knows what the reality may be but's that how my warped mind understands it.

Steve,

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not against combining the pilot groups of AA and Eagle. I also realize it would elimininate the type of Scope that AA currently has (the ASM cap). The devil is in the details of how this would be accomplished.

I also understand the 3-pase concept that you repeat above. What bothers me is what happens to the current Eagle pilots in the process.

Phase 1, does not include any Eagle pilots. Therefore those AE pilots now flying that equipment would be bumped back. Causing further redundancy and more furloughs off the bottom of the AE list.

Phase 2, transfers all the remaining AE jets to mainline "to be flown by remaining APA furloughed pilots and whatever Eagle pilots could hold the jet." That sounds OK, but unless I'm all wet what it "means" is that no current AE pilot is likely to be able to "hold" any of those positions. Do not forget that "remaining APA furloughed pilots" now includes the TWA furloughed pilots too (who are now APA pilots). So, it follows all the AE pilots bump back to the turboprops, which equals still more furloughs at AE.

Phase 3, transfers all turboprop flying with the remaining Eagle pilots. Sounds good again but, when will that happen and how many AE pilots will be "remaining" by the time that it does? In my opinion the answer is very few and none of them will be senior enough at AA to hold anything but the right seat in the same jet airplane they now fly as Captain.

I admit this deal would solve a lot of problems for the AA pilots, but I don't see what problem it will solve for the Eagle pilots. Take a look at your list, note who is flying jets now, compare that to the number of furloughed pilots at AA (which includes TWA). Then take a look at the junior AA/TWA pilots who would be better off in the left seat of the SJs. When you're done with the math, tell me what's left for the AE pilots and where they fit.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. One final question. Has any Eagle pilot seen and read the actual document that contains the entire proposal or are you making your judgments based on the summary provided by the APA?

Inquiring minds would like to know that answer too. All that glitters is not gold.

It seems to me that knowing what the reality may be in matters like this is of the utmost importance to a pilot that wants to remain an employed pilot.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus.......By combining the 2 seniority lists there would be no reason for the current scope clause. Scope is what is limiting the growth at Eagle. AA would be free to buy the RJ that they really want...and lots of them. More planes = more jobs. I think it is really that simple. But...hey....I am justApilot....what do I know!?

I'm just a pilot too. See my post to Steve (above) and then if you think I'm all wet, tell me why please.

Scope is necessary and will still be there. Scope in its present form is what is limiting growth at Eagle and to a lesser extent at AA as well. IMHO, AA hasn't lost a single job as a result of Eagles existence.

Combining the lists has risks as is always the case. How the combining is done is what determines whether the benefit is worth the down side. In the 3-phase plan, I'm having trouble determining what benefit will accrue to Eagle pilots. No job doesn't strike me as one of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong and show me why I'm wrong. Thanks.