Another multi logging question

[PropsForward]

They had a hood on board- it was stuffed in one of the suitcases behind the back seat.

Hey! Them things are expensive! Don't want to get them scratched now!

 

[crzepilot]

Yes you both can log PIC even if one is giving dual, but be able to explain how you can recieve dual and log dual, refer to the defintions of PIC in Part 1 as well as applicable rules of Part 61

 

[PropsForward]

Yes you both can log PIC even if one is giving dual, but be able to explain how you can recieve dual and log dual, refer to the defintions of PIC in Part 1 as well as applicable rules of Part 61

61.51(e)(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;​

61.51(e)(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.​

So, a student, with a pilot certificate rated in that aircraft can log PIC. And the instructor can log PIC. Pretty easy.​

 

[SigAV8R]

Okay, here's another scenario...what if both pilots in a twin (for the sake of this argument, let's say a cessna 421) are MEIs and one of them is flying as an extra crewmember. He's not logging safety pilot time, and he's not a "required" crewmember by any definition (ops specs, FARs, etc). The non-flying pilot however is getting instruction though on the systems, performance, handling of that airplane for training as another PIC for a company to use. Can the 2nd pilot log it as Dual Received even though it's not flight training for recurrent or other legal requirements. Would there be an acceptable "maximum" amount this pilot could log as dual received before it looks suspicious or like he's just riding to build time? I've been approached about this and would like other peoples input.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Dual Received even though it's not flight training for recurrent or other legal requirements. Would there be an acceptable "maximum" amount this pilot could log as dual received before it looks suspicious or like he's just riding to build time? I've been approached about this and would like other peoples input.

I don't think there's a bright line test for number of hours.

What you have to do is much simpler. Ask yourself "Is this really an instructional flight or are we just trying to screw around with the regs to build time?"

"Dual Received" with no control manipulation for stuff that could be down on the ground? My "smell" threshold would be pretty short.

 

[SigAV8R]

I don't think there's a bright line test for number of hours.

What you have to do is much simpler. Ask yourself "Is this really an instructional flight or are we just trying to screw around with the regs to build time?"

"Dual Received" with no control manipulation for stuff that could be down on the ground? My "smell" threshold would be pretty short.

Yes, but what if it is for "flight training" in that particular airplane...as in the person sitting in the right seat needs to build make/model time for insurance regulations but also twin time? Does that still apply?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes, but what if it is for "flight training" in that particular airplane...as in the person sitting in the right seat needs to build make/model time for insurance regulations but also twin time? Does that still apply?

I'm not sure I understand. Let's make sure I know what you're asking.

Pilot A is a CFI. Pilot B is not (or whether or not pilot B is a CFI is irrelevant). Pilot B needs make and model time for insurance requirements and also, of course, wants to build time.

A and B fly together. The purpose of the flight is not flight instruction, but a single pilot 135 Op. While A does all of the flying he "teaches" B how to work those new avionics and explains flight procedures, most of which could be done far more effectively on the ground to begin with). B never touches the flight controls.

Are you asking how many hours of looking at the dials and the MFD's pretty display could B log as "instruction received" flight time before someone smells the BS?

 

[Superpilot92]

How about the MEI give the ME training for his ATP or even another MEI
?