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Another MD-11 bites the dust

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Reports indicating a fire started during flight in the cargo compartment. The crew did a good job getting it on the ground and getting out.

ps-next post must have a nice bum as their avatar...
 
This thread is outstanding simply for those avatars!
 
You can't really blame the MD-11 when the incident starts out as a cargo fire. Those guys should be commended for just getting the beast on the ground.
 
I have a few hours in the MD... it's a challenging airplane to land (in as far as most are very easy to land, and this requires a bit of precision), but I tend to think it was a hard landing due to being in a hurry to get down if it is a fire... time will tell.
 
FMS-Speed said:
but I tend to think it was a hard landing due to being in a hurry to get down if it is a fire... time will tell.
Click to expand...

So far that's not what it looks like. It landed right on the money on 33R and rolled about 9000 feet down the runway. It left the runway at about a 30 degree angle and came to a stop in the sand just off the left side. It looks like they made a good landing and were almost stopped when they left the runway...

We took off 33R and they gave us a left turn on course and went over it at about 5.30 this evening, and it was still smoldering. But, you can clearly see where it went off and stopped...
 
39 year old CA and 29 year old MD-11 F/O?

Here we lucky if the F/O is less than 39 and the CA is less than social security collecting able.

Maybe in europe pilots aren't as greedy and actually have interests that make them want to retire
 
relief tube said:
39 year old CA and 29 year old MD-11 F/O?

Here we lucky if the F/O is less than 39 and the CA is less than social security collecting able.

Maybe in europe pilots aren't as greedy and actually have interests that make them want to retire
Click to expand...

Lufthansa hires guys right out of high school into their cadet programs, this 39 year old captain has most likely been with them for over 20 years. It is not uncommon to see captains at this age with cadet program airlines, happens at ANA as well
 
UM#1 said:
Reports indicating a fire started during flight in the cargo compartment. The crew did a good job getting it on the ground and getting out.

ps-next post must have a nice bum as their avatar...
Click to expand...

would like to take a bite out of that apple!
 
relief tube said:
39 year old CA and 29 year old MD-11 F/O?

Here we lucky if the F/O is less than 39 and the CA is less than social security collecting able.

Maybe in europe pilots aren't as greedy and actually have interests that make them want to retire
Click to expand...

OR, they could be like pilots at Omni where CAs make $130/hour for flying a widebody.
 
........
 
BrickTop said:
Cargo operations have been and always and always are a disaster waiting to happen......
Click to expand...

What an amateurish thing to say. Are you new to the industry?
 
Bad-Andy said:
So far that's not what it looks like. It landed right on the money on 33R and rolled about 9000 feet down the runway. It left the runway at about a 30 degree angle and came to a stop in the sand just off the left side. It looks like they made a good landing and were almost stopped when they left the runway...

We took off 33R and they gave us a left turn on course and went over it at about 5.30 this evening, and it was still smoldering. But, you can clearly see where it went off and stopped...
Click to expand...

Who gives a rat's ass about the landing? They got an airplane that had an in-flight fire on the ground and they will live to fly another day. I couldn't care less if the airplane left the runway.

Excellent job by these LH pilots. I just feel bad for them that they couldn't end their day with a few beers.
 
waka said:
Originally Posted by BrickTop
Cargo operations have been and always and always are a disaster waiting to happen......

Waka said: What an amateurish thing to say. Are you new to the industry?
Click to expand...

It's entirely possible that some have had good (i.e., professionally-managed) cargo experiences, while others have been pushed into the worst of cargo experiences. I wouldn't be so bold to call someone an amateur, based on that comment. Perhaps ask for their explanation first.

I will say this: there is no -- I repeat no -- good reason that any HAZMAT-hauling airplane should not have full fire-supression capability installed. But, the cargo carriers have petitioned the government to exempt that critical safety feature. As a result, many cargo aircraft routinely fly HAZMAT with no ability to put out a fire. The UPS DC-8 that landed in PHL on fire is one such example. Given this glaring priority of dollars over human lives, I'd have to agree: cargo operations can very much be a distaster waiting to happen.

Can cargo be hauled safely? Mostly yes, to a high degree. But not when critical safety controls and capabilities are absent, and not when pushed by poor management.
 
waka said:
What an amateurish thing to say. Are you new to the industry?
Click to expand...

There are two sets of safety standard for cargo vs passenger ops.. that is a fact. The idea that upper (main) decks of modern cargo jets have no fire suppression is but one.

Time in industry: 19 yrs both in cargo and pax operations...
 
waka said:
Who gives a rat's ass about the landing? They got an airplane that had an in-flight fire on the ground and they will live to fly another day. I couldn't care less if the airplane left the runway.

Excellent job by these LH pilots. I just feel bad for them that they couldn't end their day with a few beers.
Click to expand...

Waka, the good landing comment was directed to the post above mine (or a couple above mine) that said it looked like they got in a hurry to get on the ground and made a bad landing. Judging by the scrape marks down the runway (starting right in the touchdown zone) and off through the sand, I was refuting that guess. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

And, I would assume a good many people care about how the landing was (mainly the investigators, the insurance company, and the customers...). What good is getting a burning plane on the ground if it results in an accident and kills everyone on board?

As for the beers, the newspaper here (for what is worth) says they are (or will be soon) out of the hospital and be able to head back to Germany ASAP. So, they had to wait a day or two, but they can go enjoy their beers soon.
 
not so fast

I am not so sure about those LH pilots enjoying their beers anytime soon. I do know that the f/o in the HAM x-wind incident got her license revoked for a long time. Everybody @ LH has had sealed lips about it, and (not surprisingly) the BFU (German equivalent of the US NTSB - consisting of mainly retired LH guys) officially blames the Airbus AOM. I still don't know if she has returned to flying status. Official version: bad AOM, behind the screen - don't even ask.

I'd be very scared to scratch the surface at this company ...
 
Last edited:
Bad-Andy said:
Waka, the good landing comment was directed to the post above mine (or a couple above mine) that said it looked like they got in a hurry to get on the ground and made a bad landing. Judging by the scrape marks down the runway (starting right in the touchdown zone) and off through the sand, I was refuting that guess. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

Fair enough

Bad-Andy said:
And, I would assume a good many people care about how the landing was (mainly the investigators, the insurance company, and the customers...). What good is getting a burning plane on the ground if it results in an accident and kills everyone on board?
Click to expand...


If you read the report, nobody was killed. Like I already said in my previous post, the point is that nobody was killed. In-flight fire = get airplane on ground first. If it involves the gear getting ripped off, airplane breaking it in 2 or 3 pieces, scarred runway, who cares? The fact that they survived and that nobody on the ground was killed makes it a great work day for them. I don't care about the insurance company. Collecting premiums and paying for claims is the nature of their business. As for the customer, their freight is insured. Besides, what kind of pilots start thinking about the cost to the customer or insurance company when the airplane is in flames? So you can be there to answer questions (or even to tell people to f*** off) later, saving your own ass (and the asses of your crew) is the first priority.

Perhaps we have a semantics disagreement? If that's the case, I digress.
 
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Dornier 335 said:
I am not so sure about those LH pilots enjoying their beers anytime soon. I do know that the f/o in the HAM x-wind incident got her license revoked for a long time. Everybody @ LH has had sealed lips about it, and (not surprisingly) the BFU (German equivalent of the US NTSB - consisting of mainly retired LH guys) officially blames the Airbus AOM. I still don't know if she has returned to flying status. Official version: bad AOM, behind the screen - don't even ask.

I'd be very scared to scratch the surface at this company ...
Click to expand...

What does that botched landing and go around have to do with this accident? I don't see any indication of incompetence on the part of the crew in this accident. My bet, they'll be enjoying their hefeweizen when they get back to the Fatherland.
 
Latest reports are hard landing and post impact fire

aero.de - Luftfahrt-Nachrichten und -Community

Translated with google:

Investigators: Lufthansa Cargo MD-11F caught fire after landing

RIYADH - The investigation after the accident, a cargo plane from the MD-11F Lufthansa Cargo will slow in Riyadh. Flight LH 8460 was an accident on Tuesday at the landing. The spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority, Khaled al-Chaibari told the Saudi newspaper Al-Iqtisadiyah ":" The aircraft was placed in the landing with such force that it drifted to the left of the runway, then broke fire on board. "

He went to earlier reports from the airport to meet the Saudi capital, said to have been seen that even before the impact, a cloud of smoke on the plane. Even a spokesman for Lufthansa said on Thursday that they had no evidence of a fire prior to touchdown of the machine. The cause of the accident but was still open.

The cargo aircraft type MD-11 was labeled D-ALCQ started on Tuesday in Frankfurt and merged with the landing in Riyadh in flames and broke in two. The two pilots had been on an emergency slide to safety. They were in good health, it was said from Riyadh.

According to Lufthansa was the 39-year-old captain of the machine uninjured, the 29-year-old co-pilot had to be operated. Both should still return this week to Germany.
 

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