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Another GA Blunder

  • Thread starter Thread starter LJDRVR
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LJDRVR

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
1,134
Coming back to Houston from Monterey this morning around 1000am. I was monitoring guard, and got to listen to the Air Force and Gray Approach trying in vain to reach some hapless bozo squawking 1200 and penetrating the prohibited area at Crawford.

I can't believe some of the folks flying around. Those of us that love and participate in GA had better start policing our clueless peers, or we'll soon find it against the law to operate our aircraft.
 
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While on a transcon earlier this year, I heard another just like yours.

It started out with the 121.5 warning call for traffic bearing 040 heading SW. The warnings went on and on until he was at 220 bearing still heading SW.
 
LJDRVR said:
Coming back to Houston from Monterey this morning around 1000am. I was monitoring gurad, and got to listen to the Air Force and Gray Approach trying in vain to reach some hapless bozo sqwauking 1200 and penetrating the prohibited area at Crawaford.

I can't believe some of the folks flying around. Those of us that love and participate in GA had better start policing our clueless peers, or we'll soon find it against the law to operate our aircraft.
better hit spell check next time before you start bashing other "bozo" pilots.
 
moving2vegas said:
better hit spell check next time before you start bashing other "bozo" pilots.

Yeah, mispelling some words in an internet post and blindly violating prohibited airpace while the AWACS guys are yelling at you is pretty much the same thing.

I wasn't bashing, I was simply stating that we involved in general aviation had better start taking our freedoms and privileges more seriously or we aren't going to have them anymore. Somebody signed this yahoo off on his last BFR. Did that person spend sufficient time covering this stuff or did they just assume that no discussion about post 9-11 PIC responsibilities and national security were in order? Did the PIC involved in the incursion make any irresponsible comments to his fellow aviators that would have led anybody to believe there was a situational awareness or procedural problem that somebody could have addressed with a tactful conversation?

In half a decade, I'd like to teach my kids to fly in the family Cub. I may not have that option because of idiots like the one yesterday. By all means though, let's open a dialouge about my typing/spelling abilities.

You're totally missing the point moving2vegas. Got anything constructive to add sir?
 
LJDRVR said:
You're totally missing the point moving2vegas. Got anything constructive to add sir?

This is the Internet. Nobody has had anything constructive to add to a discussion since late 1991.
 
I did my first 150 hours at KPWG in Waco. This is not an uncommon occurrence. I flew a lot during TFRs there and usually during a 2-hour flight; I would hear at least 3-4 different planes break it. I would leave my scanner on at my house in Waco a lot during TFR's and would usually hear at least 10 planes get popped a day. "The aircraft 14 miles on the 241 radial off the Waco VOR you are entering a restricted area, reverse course immediately or you may be fired upon" Gotta love it.

I acutually heard it myself one night. We were up on the 4th watching the fireworks and it was right before Waco tower closed for the night and then I hear. "Cessna N9528W this is the United States Secret service please divert to Waco Regional and land immedialty for pilot deviation." After the 3 of us in the plane cleaned our pants I responded "roger 28W" and the next thing I hear is a room full of TRACON people laughing their a$$'s off. I didnt find it that funny.
 
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9GClub said:
Am I missing something here?

Maybe


They were warning a guy on 121.5. He never responded.

From listening, it sounded like he headed right over Crawford from NE to SW.

It sounded like garf12's quote, ""The aircraft 14 miles on the 241 radial off the Waco VOR you are entering a restricted area, reverse course immediately or you may be fired upon" Gotta love it."

Despite the threats, it sounded like the plane just bumbled through at a fairly low cruise speed. An ultralight could have been vectored for a successful intercept ;)
 
LJDRVR said:
Yeah, mispelling some words in an internet post and blindly violating prohibited airpace while the AWACS guys are yelling at you is pretty much the same thing.

I wasn't bashing, I was simply stating that we involved in general aviation had better start taking our freedoms and privileges more seriously or we aren't going to have them anymore. Somebody signed this yahoo off on his last BFR. Did that person spend sufficient time covering this stuff or did they just assume that no discussion about post 9-11 PIC responsibilities and national security were in order? Did the PIC involved in the incursion make any irresponsible comments to his fellow aviators that would have led anybody to believe there was a situational awareness or procedural problem that somebody could have addressed with a tactful conversation?

In half a decade, I'd like to teach my kids to fly in the family Cub. I may not have that option because of idiots like the one yesterday. By all means though, let's open a dialouge about my typing/spelling abilities.

You're totally missing the point moving2vegas. Got anything constructive to add sir?

You know, you are preaching like you've never done anything wrong in an airplane in your life. Is that the case? If so, you sir are the ONLY pilot that I know of that can make that claim. You are also preaching about something that has been addressed time and time again, by every regulatory agency and every pilots organization in the US. I think, by this point, it has been sufficiently addressed. Face it, there are just some boneheads out there that you cant get through to.
 
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agpilot34 said:
You know, you are preaching like you've never done anything wrong in an airplane in your life. Is that the case? If so, you sir are the ONLY pilot that I know of that can make that claim. You are also preaching about something that has been addressed time and time again, by every regulatory agency and every pilots organization in the US. I think, by this point, it has been sufficiently addressed. Face it, there are just some boneheads out there that you cant get through to.

Of course I'm not saying I've never done anything wrong. I begin every departure briefing with "If you're flying with me, rule number one is I'm stupid, so keep me honest and don't believe anything I say."

I think we need to do more. As long as mistakes as large in scope like this continue to happen, we've got to try to police ourselves better.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, there are some boneheads out there, but we can't stop trying to get through to them. Our freedom may be forever altered if we don't. Thanks for the constructive comments, I have a lot of respect for anybody who earnes their living with stick and rudder that close to the ground.

Hey! Here's an idea! Make Prohibited/Restricted area awareness and avoidance a specific task on the Private Pilot PTS. What do you think?
 
LJDRVR-

That dude was definately a bozo. Probably some old man who's sporting a flight suit in his little 150 and feeling elation and bliss cuz he gots a PPL.

That dude should have his certs. yanked.


It does make fying much more difficult for us. Its not brian surgery avoiding a TFR or Prohib. airspace......

All CFI's should address this issue to their students......
 
LJDRVR,

I think you are right on. TFR's are here to stay, and it's time that initial training addressed that. You notice that when the airspace classification changed a few years back it didnt take the Feds long to get that stuff on the tests... I fail to see why they couldnt do the same with some TFR training stuff. Of course, it wouldnt do any good for the blithering idiots that are already out there screwing up, but it would at least start to address the problem with new pilots.
 
I did my instrument rating at ILE (just outside the expanded Crawford TFR ring) and used to hear Gray talking on guard all the time. It was usually some weekend warrior who took off out of Gatesville or something like that and just blindly headed north without checking anything. I would hope by now that most of those guys realize they can't just go flying north whenever they like, but some of those guys just don't get it.
 
LJDRVR said:
Yeah, mispelling some words in an internet post and blindly violating prohibited airpace while the AWACS guys are yelling at you is pretty much the same thing.
I think that if you asked most prison inmates to spell the word "chrysanthemum", you might be surprised and note the correlation.
 
JCJ said:
AOPA Pilot has a great article this month on the DC ADIZ bust a few months ago - good read

I read the article; pretty interesting. The student pilot seems to be pointing the finger at the older guy. He (the student) seems to be mostly guilty of not backing out when the first warning signs popped up (before ever leaving the ground!)..

The older guy, however, seems to be yet another example of "Mr. Magoo goes flying". I don't know him, but based on the events and article he seems to be one of those guys who are every CFI and FBO's nightmare. These guys (and I've seen a few) show up with a valid Pilot Certificate, but typically haven't flown in quite a while. They decide to "get back into it", and expect a quickie checkout and off they go. Once you start working with the guy, however, you realize he is basically clueless as to FARs, airspace, flight planning, performance, obtaining weather etc. etc. He has a rudimentary knowledge of emergency procedures ("What would you do if you had an engine failure enroute?" " Weell, I'd find me a big field and put it down." ............. "Anything else?" ....... (Puzzled look) ....."Well,... trim it, I guess."). They can takeoff, somehow find their way around (locally at least), and get it back on the ground. They somehow managed to get signed off by an instructor and pass a checkride at some point, probably by an examiner just looking to make money and not turn applicants away. Then there are the types who've been flying all along out of the field behind the house, but haven't had a BFR in 15 years of flying,( and often not a medical during that time either). Suddenly, they want a checkout because their "old Bird" gaveup the dust and they can't afford an engine overhaul, and .... you probably can guess at the rest.

I'm all for freedom of people to fly without overbearing regulation, but in this day and age there can be no tolerance for people to set out on a flight, especially cross-country without the proper knowledge and awareness of what they are doing. One might have been able to muddle through and get by in the "old days", but today there is just no excuse.
 
leardawg said:
I'm all for freedom of people to fly without overbearing regulation, but in this day and age there can be no tolerance for people to set out on a flight, especially cross-country without the proper knowledge and awareness of what they are doing. One might have been able to muddle through and get by in the "old days", but today there is just no excuse.
I agree 100%. I totally support AOPA’s efforts to reduce the number of ADIZs, TFRs, etc. I do what I can by writing letters and responding to NPRM. However, for now these airspace restrictions are a fact of life and we GA pilots must deal with them responsibly.

When I first heard about this incident and the pilot involved I figured he was one on those old koots who likes to fly his 150 around the pattern a couple of times a year, maybe an occasional trip to the next airport for a $100 hamburger. Probably safe and proficient doing those things. Trouble starts when he attempts a more ambitious cross country.

So, months later, I now read the AOPA article and come across these gems:

* “I didn't realize that there was an ADIZ around Washington
J*sus F*cking Chr*st has he been living in a hole for the past 2+ years?

* “…it had been about 20 years since Sheaffer had made a cross-country flight”
No kidding. The DC Class B sure is a good place to knock off the old rust.

* “Sheaffer had not done much flying for the past two decades.”
See above.

* “They checked weather using a Web site, but did not get an official weather briefing”
It just keeps getting better.

* “Sheaffer pointed to a hydroelectric dam on the river and called it by name. But Martin knew that the dam was in fact a different dam. So already there was confusion about where they were.”

And on and on and on.

It was implied in the article, but not admitted to by the Government, that the radios in the Blackhawk that first intercepted them were inop. If they were working even this pilot could have been given instructions to avoid flying within 1 mile of the WashingtonMonument. Still I’m surprised no ATC facility in the area picked them up when they tried to call the Blackhawk on 121.5 as instructed.

Sure, I’ve made mistakes in airplanes before. Probably always will, but this kind of poor flight planning and navigation is negligent and inexcusable. It gives the GA community a black eye with the Government, the public, and non-GA pilots.
 

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