Annoying FBO things....

[NJA Capt]

The magnetic door lock is there so that Joe Blow can't walk out onto the ramp and mess with your aircraft. You have to come up with something better than that.

How about the locks that keep the pilots on the secure ramp side from getting into the building?

We put the chocks under the tires so you don't have to engage the brakes.

Engaging the brakes is in the shutdown checklist and keeps us from running over you while you put the chocks in. His point was to ask the pilots to release the brakes before trying to tow it.

Back in the old days (to me ), maybe 1 out of 200 crews would tip line guys. Now line guys get PO'd if EVERY pilot doesn't tip them. Go figure.....

 

[AV8R4]

I don't expect a tip every time I step on the ramp. I expect some gratitude for keeping you out of trouble.

I am not knocking checklists. When you shut the engines down and I give you the sign that you have been chocked, release the brake. That was my point.

 

[Flying Illini]

whether tipping or not, a thankyou and a smile to the line guys (or ladies), goes a long way. I don't tip very often, but I ALWAYS say thankyou, especially as you walk out the door with your pax on the way to the airplane. What annoys me are pilot who feel that everything should be done for them and then don't even say thankyou to whomever helped them out. Carry your own coffee pot inside and ask where you can brew some more...98% of the time, someone will say, "let me take that, I'll have it brought out to your airplane." Now you don't look like a jerk for demanding coffee and they are happier to help you out because of it.
If you don't want to tip for standard service, that's fine (I don't), but a thankyou and a smile goes a long way. Everybody likes to be recognized for a job well done. I feel better when my pax get off and thank us for a great flight (no matter what the landing looked like! ) but when they get off without a word, you feel like they don't appreciate the service that was provided.

off the subject but a pet peeve of mine. If somebody holds a door for you, SAY THANKYOU! Man that pisses me off when you go out of your way to help someone and they don't even recognize your effort.

 

[NJAowner]

Thank you

A thank you and a smile goes a long way. It shows appreciation and is better than a small tip.

In all aspects of life, it is amazing how far a "thank you" willget you. It seems to have been lost. I hav esworn that I will never be too important, rich or busy to say thank you and everyone in my office knows I say it often.

 

[EngineOut]

FL 350: The magnetic door lock is there so that Joe Blow can't walk out onto the ramp and mess with your aircraft. You have to come up with something better than that.

Skyking 1976: We put the chocks under the tires so you don't have to engage the brakes. The trash doesn't get picked up because you are probably a bad tipper.

Flying Illini: No, it's because you guys trash the cars and then we get stuck cleaning up the mess. You want a free ride and don't have the manners to put a little fuel in the car that you got for FREE. It beats getting a cab, which would cost you much more than a few gallons of fuel. Think about it.

Let me see if I can reverse the situations that you all are describing.

WE fuel your planes. WE wash your dishes. WE provide you with free transportation in the form of a crew car. WE get your ice, coffee and papers. WE provide you with ground power. WE throw your trash out. WE make sure that your passengers transportation is waiting upon their arrival.

YOU don't buy any fuel (not in all cases). YOU trash the crew cars. YOU keep the crew cars out for periods exceeding two hours. YOU bring the crew car back with no fuel in it. YOU have kept others from using the crew car because you were late bringing it back. YOU get all of the services that you have requested, most of which are free and then you have the nerve to say you've been mistreated. Wow! Oh yeah and thanks for the tip!!!!

I dispatch at a Fractional. A month or so ago, I had a crew tell me how wonderfully they were treated by a TAC-AIR FBO (I don't remember where now). No hangar space, it was cold, forecast freezing rain...the FBO came in 2+ hours prior to an early morning departure (unrequested) when there was a heavy frost (instead of the freezing rain). One of the line-guys completely deiced the aircraft with an aluminum bucket (or two) full of glycol and had the aircraft warm and ready to go before the crew's showtime.

I ask my boss if there is anything we can do for the FBO...his response: "we pay 'em, don't we? That's their reward." WTF? I called Pizza Hut and ordered 5 large Pizzas, wings, and pop to be delivered to them and paid for it myself. It was FAR less expensive than the hassle I would have had if that trip was delayed. My house of cards would have tumbled.

Moral: Your exceptional service will be rewarded, and sometimes by someone you may not expect.

 

[Stearmandriver]

FBO ramp monkeys that try to make you park tail-to-the-wind. Not a problem in an Embraer....

Well then maybe they've changed something in the Legacy... but I doubt it since that's an A1E engine too. You must just have never seen more than about 20kts up the pipe, 'cause more than that will definitely cause problems, even on our 145XR's. The problem isn't necessarily a hot start but a hung start... though I suppose it could GET hot if you didn't realize it was hanging and abort the start sequence.

Joe

 

[Flying Illini]

NJAowner,
Good for you. It seems you already know how far saying "thankyou" will get you.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Well then maybe they've changed something in the Legacy... but I doubt it since that's an A1E engine too. You must just have never seen more than about 20kts up the pipe, 'cause more than that will definitely cause problems, even on our 145XR's. The problem isn't necessarily a hot start but a hung start... though I suppose it could GET hot if you didn't realize it was hanging and abort the start sequence.

Joe

I didn't realize the Legacy was prone to that sort of thing. I've got almost 2500 hours in ERJs and only one hung start (not tailwind related that I know of, but maybe). Hmmmm. I'll keep that in mind for sure. I thought the word on the smaller piped jets like the Slowtation and the Beeshi Jet was a hot start. That's what I was told when I flew them so I avoided tailwind starts like the plague (still do, but only out of habit I guess).

 

[FL350]

FL 350: The magnetic door lock is there so that Joe Blow can't walk out onto the ramp and mess with your aircraft. You have to come up with something better than that.

My objection is not to the doors being locked. My objection is to the ridiculous measures a pilot must go through to get someone to unlock the door.

I didn't mean for the thread to turn into a line guy/gal gripe session.

How many of you tip line guys? I have to say that it is not soemthing I do often. The company does not reimburse us for it and I have never seen a line guy do anything that wasn't in his job descrition. In addition, the FBO where we are based pay there guys like $10/hr. plus benefits. It's not like they are waiters making $2.50/hr and depend on tips to pay bills.

 

[English]

I'd tip line guys when they loaded or unloaded passenger bags. The only other times I'd tip would be in Mexico (tip early and often) or if they went out of their way. The instances when someone would go run an errand for me, give me a ride somewhere, those times I'd tip. But, I never tipped for just bringing out the ice, coffee, papers and refueling.

 

[Flying Illini]

The only other times I'd tip would be in Mexico (tip early and often)...

Ain't that the sad truth!

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

av8r4-
Are you the biggest dingdong in the world? The quality of service you personally give while you're at work should have nothing to do with how much of a tip you think you might get. Unless you're a waitress making $2.50 an hour, don't expect a tip. I know how much rampers make. I was a ramp agent for almost 8 years for the airlines and also for an FBO. Everybody got the same degree of service when I was on duty.

WE fuel your planes. WE wash your dishes. WE provide you with free transportation in the form of a crew car. WE get your ice, coffee and papers. WE provide you with ground power. WE throw your trash out. WE make sure that your passengers transportation is waiting upon their arrival.

All of the aforementioned duties ARE YOUR JOB!!!! You are in the service industry my friend. I don't see how you get off wanting to be tipped for things that you're already getting paid to do.

I don't like my job but I show up every day ready to work. I provide the best service available in this industry. It's tough having to do the grunt work and always getting the short end of the stick.

If you don't like your job, quit. Your attitude reflects that you don't like your job. Leaving trash laying on the ramp proves you DO NOT provide the best service in the industry. Also, regardless if the aircraft in chocked or not chocked, that has nothing to do with the aircraft having it's brakes on. Different companies, as well as different aircraft, have different procedures as far as leaving the brakes on or off.

If I ever park my aircraft at your fbo and witness you purposely leaving trashbags everywhere, I'm dragging you by your earlobe into your bosses office for a meeting. Trash left on the ramp is fod and may cause engine damage.

My job description is basically flying an airliner from point A to point B. I do my job and do it well. On a regular basis, I go above and beyond the call of duty to provide that "extra level of service". I promise, when we land, we do not stand in the doorway with our hands extended for tips.

 

[labbats]

As negative as the above post may seem, I'm in agreement. I was a ramp rat for better than 6 months and never saw a tip beyond doughnuts or a few kind words. And that's all I ever asked for.

Getting tipped requires service above and beyond the call of duty. A couple of the above responses warranted a tip, and they were obvious. But I'll be very unhappy if 5 years from now I pull up in some jet to an FBO, finding some up-and-comer ramp rat all upset that I didn't tip him after I let him into the cockpit to see what it's like or neglecting to fill up the courtesy car.

The only thing that really got me mad as a ramper was when someone would fly in and request our one (and only) crew car. We'd remind them politely that it was a 2 hour maximim. 4 hours later, they roll in while I've been getting yelled at for 2 hours from some other pilots about the car. They hand me the keys without an apology and fire up the plane that didn't get any fuel and take off into the sunset forever.

At any rate, it's the old 80/20 rule of life. 80% of you all are great to have around and I looked forward to your arrival. That 20% sucked, but you move on and pay attention to that cool 80% that gives you the time of day, and a tip was never asked for, nor required. Sometimes it's just nice to be noticed when you're fueling a plane.

 

[Khirsah]

Keep in mind that at a lot of FBOs your level of service is directly proportional to the level of respect with which you treat the hired help.

Shut down and treat myself or any of the guys on my crew with disrespect and you'll get the level of service that my boss (who interestingly enough signs my check every 2 weeks and is the only one who carries any weight when he tells me what my job is) requires: Fuel, on a first come first served basis, and those flight school planes are starting to look awful low. You'll get the crew car if it's available, for an hour or two, otherwise get a rental.

Shut down and treat myself or the rest of my crew with a modicum of respect and you'll what you want when you want it. You'll get the crew car if it's available for as long as you need. If it isn't available we'll work hard to get you something else for free.

Shut down, treat myself and the rest of my crew in a friendly manner, show a little gratitude in the form of a simple thank-you, and I'll buy you lunch, give you the keys to my car if the crew car's gone, clean every bug off your plane, clean and vacuum the interior, and you might just come back to pay your bill only to find out you're paying $1.90/gal instead of $2.30.

Just something to think about.

 

[Wang Chung]

Any FBO with DTN as their weather computer also should step into the modern times. That system sucks

Amen, brother, you speak the truth! These things are the Commodore 64 of weather computers. And SOME DTNs don't even have text weather, they just have "city forecasts" and a couple marginal prog charts.

Y'know what else I hate? When there's an internet computer at an FBO and I need to do a quick email check or get on duats.com during a fuel stop...and there's some douche-bag there who's been hogging the system for half the morning surfing around just killing time!

 

[guido411]

Ok, I have one that MOST of you probably don't have a problem with but, please, sympathize with me.

At a certain FBO that many of us LOVE to HATE, I won't say any names but it's name is also something you might do at the end of a written letter where your name is, I am not allowed to use their crew cars. This is despite that fact that I have bought a couple hundred gallons of fuel, paid their outlandish landing fee, as well as their "handling" fee for that minimum wage golf card driver to bring my passengers to the terminal from the back 40, and left a million $ airplane sitting on the ramp. Why? Did I piss somebody off? Nope, I am only 23 years old, and they require a user be 25 to drive their $10,000 Ford Focus.

So there I sit, drinking the cappucino that I get for paying $3.70 for Jet-A, waiting for the van driver to run me to another MacanDon's lunch. Or by some miracle there might be a kind crew in "big iron" that is running into town that doesn't mind eating lunch with a "k-Mart King Air" driver. To all of you out there that don't mind a young single pilot type tagging along, it's much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[FL350]

I feel your pain!!!!!!!

 

[aeronautic1]

FBohhhhssss

Kid, you can ride shotgun to the chinese buffett anytime!! But, let's get back on course here. Okay, I typically carry my own trash, walk my coffee urn to the ramp shack and shovel a bucket of ice myself... unless of course a line guy (or gal, we need more gals) tells me that it is his job to get these items. A good F/O is willing and able to service the airplane while the captain handles the finacing end of the ground evolution. However, I must again reiterate, when the line guy tells you that it's his job to run ice/coffee/trash, then it is just that - his job. Now, if the lav needs servicing and the line guy offers to handle it, then I certainly tip him accordingly (again, another F/O job). I have not had too many problems with proper marshalling but a little comedy on the ramp does go a long way for a weary crew. I fly because I love my job. I do not get tipped for greasing one on the tarmac... I am just doing my job. The subject of this particular forum is what we do not like about SOME FBOs. Personally, I would like to see bigger tats on the counter girls.

 

[BoilerUP]

I dispatch at a Fractional. A month or so ago, I had a crew tell me how wonderfully they were treated by a TAC-AIR FBO (I don't remember where now).

Was it TAC-AIR LEX? Those guys and gals have always treated me well, and their line workers are about as friendly as can be. Fueling *usually* runs quickly, too. They hangared an Archer I flew down there one time in a thunderstorm, then put it in the back 40 when it blew through. A phone call 15 mintues before I arrived to the airport and the plane was waiting for me right in front, between a CJ and a King Air.


shameless plug for my hometown FBO...but they ARE good!

 

[PC12Cowboy]

Line Guys/Gals

I am glad to be flying instead of werking the line, but I always take the time to say thanks and be as personable as possible..but when you come across the rude tired and cranky ramp rat..it is hard not to let the venom flow and ask if his mommy will let him take a nap...What you receive is what you give to others!

FBO PEEVS
And having the latest weather service....limited to only a few options...now thats a pain!

 

[Publishers]

True

All of these things happen. Sometimes there has to be a little recognition on everyones part as to the situation of the moment.

When you drive your luxerormoaircraft on the ramp, most can recornize when the place is jumping and realize that this place does not have 30 crew cars. Like the pilots first thing is a safe flight followed by getting his passengers out of the airport and on their way, line crews first thing is marshalling the aircraft safely to a spot and helping you get your passengers out of there. Secondly is to find out how long you will be and what you want for your aircraft.

Be courteous and like stated above usually good things will happen. Check out what is going on and be patient when everybody is showing up at once.

 

[Limeyflyer]

All I know is that there are good FBO's and Bad FBO's. I throw the line guys a couple bucks wherever I go, not saying that they desereved it but just to be a nice guy. Do a better job get a better tip. I do have to say that if any of you guys are at enterprise aviation in Oshawa, there is no control for the tv, however this was fine because as I was lounging The Playboy Channel magically appeared thanks to the great ground crew.

 

[singlespeed]

JFK not a FBO but want money for no service

 

[Diesel]

publishers knows this from his vast experience in the corporate world. Don't you have someplace else to post about having to give up pay because it's good for the company and pilots are over paid?

HAAAAAaAAA


JFK man that place is truely the worst. Doens't Ogden fuel run the fuel farm and the port authority on NY/NJ run the "fbo".