Annoying FBO things....

[FL350]

We were just in a crappy FBO yesterday so it got me thinking about all the annoying things FBOs do. My personal favorite is the magnetically locked door to the ramp that takes an act of congress to have opened/unlocked for you. I could go on with a long list of things but I will leave that up to the rest of you...

 

[skyking1976]

Line guys that move your airplane and don't ask if your brakes are off.

Ramp fees.

Trash bags that sit next to the airplane that don't get picked up.

 

[mainah]

Spilling fuel all over the wing, not having ice, washing your windows and slamming the ladder used into your brand new airplane, asking for passenger names over the radio and not understanding why we won't tell them, theres more but I don't want to get too negative.

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

FBO's that have coffee machines that take an hour to figure out how they work. FBO's with 2 channles on the TV, and places that park you a mile away because you're not in a jet, even though there are no airplanes up close to the building. And places that require you to be driven to your aircraft (again if your airplanes doesn't cost 20 million dollars expect to be the last off). Just a few of my problems with FBOs.

 

[Flying Illini]

NO CREW CARS!
I was just at BKL (burke, Cleveland) at million air. A crew including FA came in after sending their pax on their way needing to go to a store 40 minutes away to pick up a special pax request. Million Air lady gets on the soapbox about how crew cars are a thing of the past b/c insurance costs too much and the crews would always bring the car back with no gas and how sometimes crews would take the car for more than 2 hours so they decided to just use a van to shuttle people.
Man that pisses me off. Signature at MDW has 4 cars, Sig at DET has 4 cars, Atlantic at MDW has 2 cars, even robinson, IL RSV has a crew car! To begin with, it's not the crew's responsibility to keep gas in the crew cars, second, I KNOW a large FBO like million air can afford insurance on a car or two.
The crew of the challenger that needed to go 40 minutes away was told that they can't shuttle them there because the drive time is too long and they can't afford to have a line guy away from work for that length of time. What this crew did was classic...they walked out the door, started up their 604 and taxied one ramp over to the other FBO! More power to 'em. There is NO reason not to have crew cars at ANY FBO. Period.

Sorry about the rant, but hey, you asked!

 

[SabreFlyR]

This just happened tonight. We pulled onto the ramp, line guy comes walking out with the wands in his hands and hand no clue as to wht the he!! he was doing. After we parked and I explained the the purpose of the wands were to guide us where you want us to park, he appologized and said "I've only been here for a year".
Lesson learned, next time we go to the other fbo (Eagle), even if the fuel is $1.00/gal more.

 

[learflyer]

Guys not knowing how to martial (sp)? you think they are set up in one direction then the'll turn the other way. Just freakin' stay put and let us know where you want us to park!!

Asking 5 times for a gpu, and when they finally bring one out, the fuel truck shows up at the same time and then they say they can't fuel with the gpu running. arrgghh!

 

[Diesel]

I've never understood the we can't plug the gpu in while we're fueling.

It's jet a not 100LL. You could throw a match into jet a and it wouldn't catch on fire. Needs to be atomized.

My favorite is when they bring the GPU out and the they fire it up it puts out like 30 volts or 26 volts. Hey how about fixing that POS.

Crew rooms that have more pax in it than crew. Then get all po'ed when you take the remote and change the channel. MMU's old signature/ lynton jet building was notorius for it. The pilots weren't allowed to wait in the front room so we had to wait in the back. Owners realized there was a TV back there and would take up all the lazy boys.

Satelite TV with the basic satelite package.

A fbo van that will take you anywhere you want to go as long as the guy isn't busy and it's within 3 miles of the airport.

Calling ahead to set up a QT with gpu, catering number and ice. You get there and the line guy has no idea what your talking about. GPU is still across the ramp and you know it's going to be a long day. Sigh

 

[IP076]

Mainah,

None of that is at Regent Millionaire is it?

 

[mainah]

No, its a combination of other FBO's and a certain one in Michigan that has done all of the above. No compalints about Regent whatsoever. In there three times this week and they always have great service and plenty of eye candy!

 

[Brett Hull]

But we'll rent you a car

NO CREW CARS!
There is NO reason not to have crew cars at ANY FBO. Period.

What's annoying? When an FBO's ripped on airnav.com by various customers about not having a crew car. Instead of buying a cheap clunker for the crews to run into town to grab lunch with, they have all of the responses removed with the disclaimer: "Midwest Aviation has requested that AirNav not collect or publish user comments. For any feedback or customer service inquiries, please contact Midwest Aviation directly."

I'm so tankering next time I go through PAH.

What this crew did was classic...they walked out the door, started up their 604 and taxied one ramp over to the other FBO! More power to 'em

Sweet!

 

[AV8R4]

FL 350: The magnetic door lock is there so that Joe Blow can't walk out onto the ramp and mess with your aircraft. You have to come up with something better than that.

Skyking 1976: We put the chocks under the tires so you don't have to engage the brakes. The trash doesn't get picked up because you are probably a bad tipper.

Flying Illini: No, it's because you guys trash the cars and then we get stuck cleaning up the mess. You want a free ride and don't have the manners to put a little fuel in the car that you got for FREE. It beats getting a cab, which would cost you much more than a few gallons of fuel. Think about it.

Let me see if I can reverse the situations that you all are describing.

WE fuel your planes. WE wash your dishes. WE provide you with free transportation in the form of a crew car. WE get your ice, coffee and papers. WE provide you with ground power. WE throw your trash out. WE make sure that your passengers transportation is waiting upon their arrival.

YOU don't buy any fuel (not in all cases). YOU trash the crew cars. YOU keep the crew cars out for periods exceeding two hours. YOU bring the crew car back with no fuel in it. YOU have kept others from using the crew car because you were late bringing it back. YOU get all of the services that you have requested, most of which are free and then you have the nerve to say you've been mistreated. Wow! Oh yeah and thanks for the tip!!!!

 

[BankAccount=0$]

.

Let me see if I can reverse the situations that you all are describing.

WE fuel your planes. WE wash your dishes. WE provide you with free transportation in the form of a crew car. WE get your ice, coffee and papers. WE provide you with ground power. WE throw your trash out. WE make sure that your passengers transportation is waiting upon their arrival.

YOU don't buy any fuel (not in all cases). YOU trash the crew cars. YOU keep the crew cars out for periods exceeding two hours. YOU bring the crew car back with no fuel in it. YOU have kept others from using the crew car because you were late bringing it back. YOU get all of the services that you have requested, most of which are free and then you have the nerve to say you've been mistreated. Wow! Oh yeah and thanks for the tip!!!!

Hmmmmm. I'm not too sure if you realize this, but it is your JOB to fuel my aircraft. It is your JOB to throw out a bag of trash if left on the ramp to be picked up. It is also in the best interest for an FBO to try and make a flight crew as comfortable as possible since they are usually the ones who decide where to buy fuel.
Don't get me wrong, I know it sucks going out in a f'ing blizzard to fuel/de-ice/move an airplane. But it is a line guy's JOB to do those things. And as far as tipping goes, I'll throw ya a couple of bones when I start seeing the PAX tip me ok??
I worked the line, and now I'm on the other side of things. I don't need much to be happy, but if you're going to charge my boss money for things like a "ramp fee" or charge more for fuel but not support it by having superior service, then why on Earth should I stop on your ramp instead of the other guys?? Ultimatly it's YOUR job that is in the balance here not mine, and not the owner of your FBO.

 

[AV8R4]

I am well aware of what my job entails. I just don't like hearing pilots talk trash about line personnel.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

yup, thats your job - if you dont like it - get another!!!

But c'mon guys, tip the line guys. Nothing worse than a cheap a$$ pilot. Especially you folks who stiff a hard working line guy and write down 20 bucks on your expenses.. you are a real scumbag and you deserve $hit service you always seem to get.


You know who you are and so do the line guys who park you in the back 40. so dont complain.

 

[Flying Illini]

AV8R4,
At no time did I (or anyone else) trash line personnel. As far as your gripes, most of the FBO's I go to have no problem performing any of their duties with a smile on their face. Crew Cars...it pisses me off too when I get in a car that is trashed from other crews. That's not professional and I ALWAYS take in a few pieces that have been left in the car. I have NEVER left my trash in a crew car, nor have any of the guys I have flown with. I think it's unprofessional to do that and think that other people should clean up after you. However, I'm not going to vacuum a car, dust a car, wash a car, or put fuel into a car that I am only going to have for a few hours (you can't get far in that time, so you aren't using much fuel). I admit, I've gone over the time limit before BUT we asked before we left if we could be gone X number of hours. If I purchase $1200 worth of fuel, I EXPECT good amenities and EXCELLENT customer service (and I won't put ANY gas in a crew car...ever. It's not my job, nor my responsibility. The car is provided as an amenity). IF you can't smile and put on a good face at your job, then you shouldn't be there. PERIOD. Your job involves direct contact with customers and you are the first face seen as that door opens. Greet the pax and the pilots with a "hi, how are ya? What services will you require?" and do your job. If you don't like being nice and smiling all of the time, don't take the job. I can tell you that if I didn't put on a good face for my pax, I wouldn't last long at the job. Most days are great, but other days drag on or you just aren't in a smiling mood, but that doesn't matter, your job (and mine, as a pilot) involves direct customer contact, therefore, suck it up and put on a good face.
As far as trash, I always carry my own unless someone offers to take it in. I have no problem dragging my own coffee and ice to the airplane but usually those items, the ice in particular, aren't accessible to pilots so we HAVE to ask the people behind the counter for it, they in turn, call you line guys.
I expect nothing from line service other than a professional attitude and the willingness to help me do whatever I need to do to make my pax happy. If they aren't happy, we hear about it. If we (pilots) aren't happy, the FBO hears about it...or they don't, but I guarantee we won't be going to that FBO again.

Bottom line, the job of a line-man IS customer service. Any line person who thinks otherwise is in the wrong. The job of the FBO is to provide pilot and pax services. Happy pax=happy crew. Happy crew=a fuel purchase=return business.

Now, after this rant it may seem like I hate line-personnel, that's untrue. There are many very good line people out there and they can make all the difference in how my day goes.
There are also many good FBO's out there, they are the ones that realize that crew cars are an expense to doing business and that they exist to server the customer. The bad ones are the ones that think that what they do is just another job. It is very easy to tell as soon as you get off the plane which place you are at.

 

[AV8R4]

Flying Illini,

You speak the truth. I have no problem with that. I know the ins and outs of line service and I also know how to smile when all you want to do is stick your foot in some rich guys butt. I don't like my job but I show up every day ready to work. I provide the best service available in this industry. It's tough having to do the grunt work and always getting the short end of the stick. I'm sure you know what I mean.

 

[h25b]

"It's tough having to do the grunt work and always getting the short end of the stick. I'm sure you know what I mean. "

Hate to be the bearer of the bad news here bud, I'll let you in on the secret though. As a corporate pilot, YOU do have to do the grunt work and you will get the short end of the stick.... ! ....

But I wouldn't trade it for anything, because I do love what I do and I don't mind going out of my way for the passengers because that translates in to another wonderful thing I call job security...

Fortunately, most FBO's and line service provide excellent service. most pilot's, myself included, have worked the line and understand what it's like. On the tipping front, some pilots do and some don't. Get used to it. I always make sure one of us has tipped the van driver for a ride to the hotel or for lunch/dinner. But never for anything around the airport except for service above and beyond the call of duty. I don't get tipped for performing what's in my job description or for anything else for that matter. Sorry And believe me, I could tell you some stories about going completely beyond the call of duty and not even having it acknowedged. I don't mean to knock the wind out of your sails, but if you plan on eventually flying for a living you have a few more disappointments left ahead of you besides getting stiffed on tips. Remember, if it weren't for those rich guys we would be out of work.

 

[LegacyDriver]

FBO ramp monkeys that try to make you park tail-to-the-wind. Not a problem in an Embraer, but in a Citation or Mitsu-Beech-i it can definitely contribute to engine startup issues.

 

[AV8R4]

Known as a "Hot Start" Correct?

 

[LegacyDriver]

That's my understanding, any way. Thankfully I have not had one for real yet... Hung starts rarely, but never a hot one. I don't intend to either.

 

[Flying Illini]

Flying Illini,

You speak the truth. I have no problem with that. I know the ins and outs of line service and I also know how to smile when all you want to do is stick your foot in some rich guys butt. I don't like my job but I show up every day ready to work. I provide the best service available in this industry. It's tough having to do the grunt work and always getting the short end of the stick. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I do know what you mean. Good for you and here is a "thankyou" from all of the pilots you've helped. I don't know your career plans, but if you end up on the corporate or charter side of the biz, you will quickly understand what has been said in these posts. You sound like a stand-up line guy, keep it up and try to influence that in all of the people you work with. You guys are the "ramp ambassadors."
And believe me...all of us in this biz have come across some rich guy that makes you want to stick your foot up his butt.

 

[skyking1976]

Skyking 1976: We put the chocks under the tires so you don't have to engage the brakes. The trash doesn't get picked up because you are probably a bad tipper.

Here we go...

Let me start by saying that I appreciate everything that line guys do for the crew/pax at an FBO. Without you guys, nothing would ever get done. Now then. Deflate your chest, relax for a minute, and let me clarify some things for you.

Like several others in my chosen profession, I started out pumping gas for an FBO. I understand how much you guys make, what the work conditions are like, etc. I've been there. FBO's are not just gas stations. They are the first thing a passenger sees when they come to the airport for a chartered flight. People pay a premium price for a premium service. The pilots/mechanics/flight attendants make sure the airplane is in immaculate condition and appearance. If passengers see trash on the ramp before they even enter the airplane, what kind of image do you think that creates? What will they expect out of the rest of their trip?

FBOs are in business to provide a service. Pilots expect to be asked if they need ice, catering, how much fuel, any trash, how long are you staying with us, and are your brakes off if we need to move the airplane? You never know if it's standard procedure for a charter company to leave the brakes on or not. Chocks in place do not always equate to "brakes off." FBOs chock aircraft for liability reasons. If you don't believe me, ask your station manager.

Regarding tips. If all we do is sit on your ramp and wait for passengers, you're not getting any tip. If it puts you out to set the red carpet in front of the steps, don't even bother putting it there. I don't want it or need it. On the other hand, if we call ahead, ask for a "quick turn" with catering, fuel, bug job, the whole 9 yards, I will gladly reward good service with a good tip. Saying that trash doesn't get picked due to lack of a tip is assinine. You get the tip after the job is done, not before.

Take all this for what is worth. I'm not trying to slam any FBO or FBO employee in particular. These are all just observations I have about how I believe a professional image and service can create a good relationship between FBOs and their customers.

SK

 

[AV8R4]

Flying Illini,

Thanks for the kind words. They are appreciated.

skyking1976,

You have made valid points. I am only speaking from experiences at my FBO. I guess every FBO operates in their own unique way.

 

[GVFlyer]

FL 350: The magnetic door lock is there so that Joe Blow can't walk out onto the ramp and mess with your aircraft. You have to come up with something better than that.

Skyking 1976: We put the chocks under the tires so you don't have to engage the brakes. The trash doesn't get picked up because you are probably a bad tipper.

Flying Illini: No, it's because you guys trash the cars and then we get stuck cleaning up the mess. You want a free ride and don't have the manners to put a little fuel in the car that you got for FREE. It beats getting a cab, which would cost you much more than a few gallons of fuel. Think about it.

Let me see if I can reverse the situations that you all are describing.

WE fuel your planes. WE wash your dishes. WE provide you with free transportation in the form of a crew car. WE get your ice, coffee and papers. WE provide you with ground power. WE throw your trash out. WE make sure that your passengers transportation is waiting upon their arrival.

YOU don't buy any fuel (not in all cases). YOU trash the crew cars. YOU keep the crew cars out for periods exceeding two hours. YOU bring the crew car back with no fuel in it. YOU have kept others from using the crew car because you were late bringing it back. YOU get all of the services that you have requested, most of which are free and then you have the nerve to say you've been mistreated. Wow! Oh yeah and thanks for the tip!!!!

Where do you work?

 

[AV8R4]

I don't think that I'll give out that info today. We have all had our say here and I think that we are all in agreement.

 

[aroundtheblock]

I'm all for dropping a $20 bill if a line guy goes above and beyond his job description. But to tip him for doing his basic job is not right. When was the last time a pilot got a tip for landing an airplane or setting the proper thrust setting. But the main reason for this post was not line guy problems it is FBO problems. I don't have a problem for a lack of ammenities if the price/gal is $2.40 or less. It's the $3.75/gal and no ammenities that pisses me off. We do alot od business @ Enterprise Jet @ Hobby. Cheap fuel and great line guys and ammenities. Highly reccommended.

 

[OPECJet]

I just love those FBOs who don't answer the radio when you check in 5 to 10 minutes out, or earlier.....

I also just adore FBOs who have a snooze room in a noisy part of the FBO where you're guaranteed not to get any sleep....

Any FBO with DTN as their weather computer also should step into the modern times. That system sucks.

And my all time favorite... When you call the FBO a few miles out and ask them to park your airplane where they won't have to tow you, and find the airplane in another spot in the north forty with the nosewheel steering disonnected.... All this occurs after you voluntarily park there and walk 5 miles to the FBO to avoid having your airplane moved.

BTW... When I get the crew car to get lunch, I always look for guys who might be behind me in the line for one. I've met quite a few good folks doing this and have always enjoyed the company of another bored pilot waiting on pax. You guys might want to try it also.

 

[NJAowner]

Double tips

And then there are the times when I (as a frac owner) tip the line guys (usually for loading the luggage to/from the car on the ramp - and a quite larger tip than the pilots give) and the NJA pilots give a tip as well. I have never seen the double tip turned down.

On a different front, at the small-ish FBO at my local airport last year (a nameless airport but with an 80 year old owner who personally drives the runway everyday and built the runway himself with a bulldozer), we had that Northeast blizzard and they dug out our cars prior to arrival which the snow plow plowed under with the results of 24" of snow. Quite appreciated, and since we came in late at night I drove back a few days later to personally deliver a significant (and appreciated and well deserved) tip. This FBO always provides great service (but not a$$ kissing) and we always appreciate it.

But, an FBO, like many, is a service industry. I spent many years valet parking cars for the same individuals at a horse track in the summers. If you provide extra service, it is many times appreciated. If you keep giving the "extra service" to those who appreciate you, it can keep growing. We had many a "client" who gave us $20 or $50 per visit, several times per week, to be greeted with a smile, parked in front and promptly, and given a 50 cent program when they arrived. Easier to park the car of a $20 man than 10 $2 men. But everyone got a good minimum level of service and respect. My bossess who spent many years developing the clientele made over $100K per year, mostly cash, for 9 months work parking cars at 2 racetracks. It makes you wonder, but I made over $1k per week in college in the summers working with them. It is all about the service and the appearance of "feeling special".

 

[skyking1976]

While were in the mode of giving props to FBO's, Sun Air out in KCMA went over and above the call of duty the other day.

Our passengers had requested a certain soft drink which we didn't have on board. No sooner had we placed our order with the young lady behind the counter, our passengers called and said they would arrive at the airport in 20 minutes. The FBO did not have our drinks on hand, so without skipping a beat, an FBO employee was headed out of the parking lot and down to the nearest convenience store.

Not only did we have our drinks on the airplane with 5 minutes to spare, they were nice and cold too. Thanks a million to the wonderful people at Sun Air Camarillo, CA. WELL DONE!

SK