ANG F-16 from Andrews

[DOVPILOT]

A report on the local philly TV news tonight said that an F-16 from Andrews AFB base straffed an elementary school in Little Egg Harbor, NJ last night at 2300. The pilot squeezed off 25 rounds into the roof of the school. Two janitors where in the building but no one was injured. Just curious to see what ramifications may happen to the pilot, hopefuly nothing.

 

[Vegas Flyer]

Article

National Guard jet strafes South Jersey school

[size=-1]By Jacqueline L. Urgo and Troy Graham[/size]

[size=-1]INQUIRER STAFF WRITER[/size]

An Air National Guard fighter plane on a training mission to an Ocean County target range last night accidentally fired a cannon, strafing a Little Egg Harbor Township school, officials said today.

No one was injured.

Custodians at the Little Egg Harbor Intermediate School reported a sound like "someone running across the roof" around 9 p.m. Police officers who went to the school to investigate did not find anything unusual.

But, school personnel who arrived at the school this morning discovered about 25 inch-and-a-half long training rounds in several classrooms. The rounds, fired from a Vulcan cannon, punctured ceiling tiles and scuffed the floors, school officials said.

The school was closed today because of the New Jersey Education Association conference in Atlantic City and is not scheduled to reopen until Monday. School officials said repairs would be made and the school, which serves 970 students from third to sixth grade, should reopen on time.

Two F-16 planes were flying last night at 7,000 feet on the training mission from Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland when one of the planes accidentally strafed the school. The building is about three and a half miles from the Warren Grove range, where the planes were supposed to fire their weapons.

Military officials would not identify or give the rank of the pilot whose plane fired on the school.

"He inadvertently discharged the weapon. He was not in the act of aiming the gun at anything," said Col. Brian Webster, commander of the 177th Fighter Wing of the New Jersey National Guard. "We do not know exactly why the gun fired."

This was not the first mishap involving the Warren Grove range. In 1999, a bomb that fell outside the range sparked a fire in the Pine Barrens that burned more than 11,000 acres.

Two years later, another practice bomb started a 1,600-acre fire, and in 2002, a jet returning from a practice run crashed near the Garden State Parkway. The pilot ejected safely and on one on the ground was injured in that incident.

 

[Goose17]

he never liked elementary school.

Maybe, just maybe that was his school growing up. He always knew he would get even some day. ; )

Kinda tough to explain. THE HATCH JUST BLEW!

Goose17

 

[Weasel Keeper]

Same type of incident happend with an F-16C from the Ft Wayne IN ANG back around 93. Returning from a training mission a farm house was accidentally strafed. Luckily nobody was home. I never heard what happened to the pilot because I got out of the Guard soon after.

 

[F16TJ]

Same type of incident happend with an F-16C from the Ft Wayne IN ANG back around 93. Returning from a training mission a farm house was accidentally strafed. Luckily nobody was home. I never heard what happened to the pilot because I got out of the Guard soon after.

He no workie no more!

 

[LearLove]

At Warren Grove back in the early 80's a O-2A firing WP rockets skiped one off a target. The motor kept burning and sent the rocket off the range across the highway and into the Pine Barrens starting a rather large forest fire. You can still see the burnt area to this day.

The news is saying the f-16 was from Andrews. I hope so and not a NJ f-16. They've had alot of bad press in the last fews years. First was the TCAS/727 incident then the mid-air over the water and the resulting fist fight in the coast guard helo.

 

[*42*]

Maybe, just maybe that was his school growing up. He always knew he would get even some day. ; )

Maybe the pilot was brushing up on that move--you know the one where he goes in, drops the candy bars, then comes back and strafes the kids...



........OK, if your'e laughing right now, you're definitely in the military

 

[BonesF15]

I read the school was 3 miles from the range, sounds like really bad target ID with night vision goggles.

 

[BonesF15]

I dunno... if he was getting out some pent up aggression for a paddeling he got... strafing it from 7K feet is pretty dammn good shooting!!!

Actually 7K is pretty normal for high angle strafe.

It is pretty funny listening to the media state "Fortunately the kids had the day off from school" when the school was strafed at 11 pm.

Speaking of funny stories...
One of my classmates in F16 RTU shot at one of the Instructors when he was jumped off target after dropping heavyweights. It was a no lock shot and he missed by quite a bit. He is probably the only guy to actually fire live ammo at another aircraft since vietnam! I bet you can guess his callsign.

Another guy strafed a campfire at night with a couple of dumb*sses sleeping in their tents on the live fire portion of the range. They picked a great spot to camp in the AZ desert! The pilot thought he was shooting at one of the night targets on the range. Lucky for the campers this guy was a much better shot and only hit the campfire and not the adjacent tents.

 

[RJP]

Sounds like another porker weapons delivery technique. MAST (Medium Altitude Strafe Toss).

I'm surprised they came that close to the range.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

He no workie no more!

Most likely...true dat!

 

[Caveman]

"Just curious to see what ramifications may happen to the pilot, hopefuly nothing."

WTFO!?! Nothing? Are you serious? I don't care how bad an honest mistake it was nor how many extenuating circumstances there were. At the very least it's gross dereliction of duty. What possible excuse or mitigating circumstances could let this joker off the hook? It was dark out?

I'm all for circling the wagons around our compadres, but gimme a break, that pilot should pay heavily for this one.

 

[BonesF15]

"Just curious to see what ramifications may happen to the pilot, hopefuly nothing."

WTFO!?! Nothing? Are you serious? I don't care how bad an honest mistake it was nor how many extenuating circumstances there were. At the very least it's gross dereliction of duty. What possible excuse or mitigating circumstances could let this joker off the hook? It was dark out?

I'm all for circling the wagons around our compadres, but gimme a break, that pilot should pay heavily for this one.

Caveman,

I suggest you go out to an air to ground range where the civilian population has crept up to the property line and have a guy on the ground talk you onto a target from his perspective verses how things look to you at 20K. Remember it is dark outside but boy those nvg's really turn night into day...not. Try looking through a soda straw with zero depth perception and depending on conditions very little detail, all in different shades of green. Next roll in visually on this target pointing your jet at the ground up to 45 degrees at 500kts to put the pipper on a tiny speck and actually hit something and then recover the jet before you smack the ground or get Spatial D.

Yes this guy made a mistake but you have no idea what the circumstances were. I personally would not be throwing spears unless I knew what I was talking about. This guy or girl could be a clown who should take up sailing instead of airplanes or maybe the best pilot in the unit who knows, all I am saying is that it can be a very difficult thing to pull off.

The Air Force lost an F15E in Iraqi Freedom in this same type of scenario when two highly experienced Instructors hit the ground at night supporting troops on the ground at night.

What do you suggest we do to this criminal who put a couple of holes in the roof of an empty building, maybe jail time and take his wings?

 

[Caveman]

Bones spare me the cheating death, high stress, techo warrior, nobody but a fighter pilot knows how it is crap! Something, somewhere went really wrong and he/she was the last link in the chain. You can blame the controller. You can blame the environment. You can tell me how hard it is. You can come up with any freaking lame excuse you want, but the bottom line is HE SHOT UP AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN NEW JERSEY!

What else do I have to know?

 

[BonesF15]

I just expected a retired Marine to have a clue.

Monday morning quarterbacks

 

[RJP]

Remember it is dark outside but boy those nvg's really turn night into day...not. Try looking through a soda straw with zero depth perception and depending on conditions very little detail, all in different shades of green.

Here's a tip: Move your friggin' cranium.

And honestly, the porker has a TD Container (b.o.x.) that was, hopefully, not centered on the school in question. I saw the HUD tape of a guy dropping blue death on a range tower once. Amazing thing is that the TD was ON THE TARGET but he decided the range complex was too juicy to pass up.

Mistakes happen. At least this time the guard didn't kill a group of Canadians.

 

[Birdstrike]

"..the bottom line is HE SHOT UP AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN NEW JERSEY!"

What else do I have to know?

Nuff said.

Heard this has happened there before. Maybe somebody will figure out that it's time to move the crib.

Put it in the middle of the Pine Barrens. Nothing there to hit if you tried.

 

[AA717driver]

Now that we've settled that argument, I want to hear more about the fistfight in the CG helo... That'd make a great moving avatar! "Hey! You guys can't do that! You're not NASCAR drivers, you know!" TC

 

[LearLove]

Now that we've settled that argument, I want to hear more about the fistfight in the CG helo... That'd make a great moving avatar! "Hey! You guys can't do that! You're not NASCAR drivers, you know!" TC

the report I was told goes like this:

2 pilots in the unit (both had been there several+ years) hated each other. The person that told me this said he did not know the details of the disliking but it had started prior to their guard service maybe while they were in the AF. Anyway the way the unit got around this was that it was known that these 2 were not to be sked to fly together.

Well one day they were put together in a B model to go out with an A model and do "intercept" stuff off the coast of ACY. I was told that they were seen argueing on the way across the ramp.

In the air they went to do something called a "thump" using night vision stuff. The A model was flying some profile and was the plane to be "thumped".

As the two in the B model closed in on the A an arguement started as to who was flying the result was that one guy hadn't turned on or did something to his NVG's or something along the lines so as to interfear with his site of the A model. The "thump" turned into a "bump" where the (I don't knoe which wing) A model wing tip and missle was removed by the B model's tale (or some aft flying surface of the B model)

The guy in the A model was able to recover at ACY and the B model went into Atlantic. Both guys in the B ejected and the CG (based at ACY but on the ground at Ocean City, NJ at the time) launched to recover. Once both were in the helo and on the way back to AC the fighting started and continued on the ramp at AC until the paramedics meeting the helo broke it up put and one guy into an ambulance.

End of report....

My sources - ANG pilots, mechanics and the news helo pilot that met up with the CG helo on the way in from picking up the 2 guys that ejected.

 

[Slim177]

That is a great story!


Now let me tell you what really happened.....

The front seater in the B model was coming off a six month grounding for discipline. He had a back seater IP with him for NVG requal. The pilot in the A model was ordered to fly this mission as his NVG intercept target. Straight and level at 14,000 feet and 300 KIAS. The front seater in the B model had threaten to Mid-Air the A model pilot. He made these statements in front of a squadron meeting and it was no secret. They had not flown together for sometime and the OGC ordered the pairing that night. The B model pilot intentionally rammed the single seat from behind and tried to commit suicide. After the collision, the B model lost its wing and exploded. The single seater flew rescap until his plane was falling apart. He RTB'd to nearset airstrip, ACY. He flew a deadstick approach at night, with a min controll airspeed of 220KIAS, to a runway with no approach lights, and a tailwind of ten knots. Before he left the cap, he was talking with a USCG helo pilot from brooklyn doing a night training mission. They were the first rescue asset on scene. The USCG scrambled a second helo from cape may. They had not moved to ACY yet. The First helo didn't have NVGs onboard, so they got the back seater who was competent and vectored them in. The front seater was hypothermic and in shock, the second helo used its night vision and located the front seater. A swimmer jumped in and saved him. Both helo crews did an outstanding job that night! The front seater was rushed to a trauma center and the helo with the back seater brought him to the F-16 base where an ambulance transported him to the couty general hospital. Both pilots never got a chance to see each other, although I'm sure the back seater would have kicked his ass all the way to the hospital!

After the USAF Safety Board completed its findings;
The wing commander was fired, the vice-wing commander was fired, the OGC was allowed to retire in disgrace, the squadron commander retired, and best of all......

the front seater was found to be mentally unfit and was stripped of his commission and thrown out! He was almost court martialed for attempted murder. Unfortunately, He had some incriminating evidence of very senior state officers doing very junior enlisted girls. He was given 12 hours to get out of sight! What is he doing now......

He is a Captain for United Airlines!
The IP in the back seat lied to the SIB and was found causal in the crash. The front seater got him a job at United. The single seater pilot was cleared in the crash by the SIB and then publically found partially at fault by the AIB. He was at 13,920 feet and 292 KIAS at impact. The slower than briefed speed contributed to the closure problem and was a factor in the crash. SWEAR TO GOD! He was hit by the D model doing over 520 KIAS. It was a very bad job of trying to cover it up and mitigate the damage to the NJANG.

I appreciate your version and never mind hearing all the interesting rumors of that night. Keep the stories coming.....

 

[LearLove]

"I appreciate your version and never mind hearing all the interesting rumors of that night. Keep the stories coming....."

My version...Just relaying what I was told, thanks for clearing it up. Its been years since I've talked with the ANG pilot that told me this the same goes for the ANG crew chief however I do see the helo pilot quite often and will tell him what you said.

I did hear about the loss of jobs/retirements and also herd a rumor that the unit was "threatened" with loosing the f-16s and getting the C-130 if things didn't change. Can you shed any info on that rumor?

Anyway now that thats cleared up how about the skinny on this:

"Unfortunately, He had some incriminating evidence of very senior state officers doing very junior enlisted girls."

 

[Slim177]

As a disclaimer I must state that I never witnessed MG Cosgrave with his penis inside her vagina. Otherwise they have both admitted to me of their ongoing affair. MG Cosgrave couldn't even give a statement recently about his long and not so discrete affair with an enlisted girl. He had to take the fifth and beg the state privately to pay a junior officer hush money to make the allegations go away. Also, the Front seater was having an affair with an enlisted girl in our unit. They perjuried themselves multiple times and the girl finally was divorced from her husband that was a crew chief in the unit. The crew chief found out as the children grew up and didn't look like him that he was not the father. Then she filed for child support because the married pilot was the father of some of her children. The wing commander protected the front seater from many instances of discipline. The flight commanders, squadron ops officer and squadron commander all wanted to ground him on numerous occasions. The wing commander always intervened on his behalf. Only after the crash, when the USAF uncovered all the wing commanders heinous actions did the four star step in. I'm working on selling the story to hollywood! It is amazing because it is true. If you only use the sworn testimony it makes a great story of ego and corruption and blackmail.


With that said,

The new leadership is finally that-Leadership. The unit is a great unit that has got a commander who has morals and the courage to do what is right.

The USAF has tried to bury this because it affects the morale and discipline of the troops if the senior officers can do anything they want and continue to abuse the system.

PS The F-16s were never in jeopardy! We had just completed an ORI and was one of the highest rated. The men and women in the unit were and are some of the best. We just had some corrupt leadership.

The january 1997 incident with Nations Air is another story. Our new female F-16 pilot and Gov Christine Whitman. Can you figure why they blamed it on an elisted navy seaman in norfolk. The two F-16s did a great job of knowingly intercepting a civilian airliner. We felt they should both be fired. Not in that political world. They both got promotions. BTW, she now flys for United!

 

[Slim177]

Also, please do thank the helo pilots! The two guys who were saved were so ashamed of their conduct that when the helo crew came to the unit for a 50th anniversary party the survivors shunned them. Pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty behavior towards the guys who saved your life. I remember meeting them and thanking them, but I will never get over the fact that the guys they rescued never said thanks!

 

[RJP]

Ah....the guard. What a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ing joke.

 

[AA717driver]

Thanks for speaking out, Slim. Can't wait for the movie. I love Hollywood flying scenes. So realistic.TC

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Slim,

Interesting recount. Are you the Slim from "The Unknown Rider" written by the late Scott Anderson? Do you know Rick W?

-Neal

 

[Slim177]

Yes I am!


I was the one who went to flight school and F-16 RTU with Rick. It was a priveldge to know Ando and all the great guys from Duluth. Rick W. and Scott V. are still two of the best around, now that I retired..............

 

[ultrarunner]

The pilot squeezed off 25 rounds into the roof of the school. Just curious to see what ramifications may happen to the pilot, hopefuly nothing.

He'll be at Delta when they start hiring again. It'll be one of those "...tell us about a time when..."

 

[ultrarunner]

Good point

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Yes I am!


I was the one who went to flight school and F-16 RTU with Rick. It was a priveldge to know Ando and all the great guys from Duluth. Rick W. and Scott V. are still two of the best around, now that I retired..............

Slim,

Its a really funny story how I met Rick and then he put me in touch with Scott. I had previously read Scott's book (5 times) so getting a chance to talk to both of them was an incredible experience. I lost touch with Rick but did get a chance to talk to him after he punched out of the jet prior to attending FWS (not sure if he ever had a chance to attend). Do you ever talk to him? Have an email address by chance?

-Neal

-Neal