Anderson to be named CEO of Delta

[NuGuy]

Is this different than the Pan Am and UAL transaction? I know NW flies some flights from NRT to Nagoya and onto Saipan (flight 77 I believe), etc, but those flights do NOT have paying passengers deplaning in Nagoya. NWA is really not a domestic passenger airline in Japan as you have stated. You guys can stop in Nagoya on the way to another point, but not take passengers between those domestic cities. UAL also has a NRT base that can connect passengers to other Asian cities, and they purchased the rights from Pan Am and changed the name. Can you or Oscam show me the difference between the Pan Am and United transaction and possible Delta and NW transaction and why a name transfer could be done with the first but not the second?

From my understanding the incumbant rights are transferrable by the US government to any USA Flag carrier, and the slots are held by the foreign government. Slots can be transferred at will, as Delta did to Fedex back in 2002 when they gave up their slots they initially used for PDX--NRT. The Japanese government approved that deal, and probably would approve others.

As I said, Occam has the low down. When I said "domestic", I didn't mean as in intra-Japan, but rather NWA is treated as a Japanese airline when it comes to carrying passengers beyond NRT. NWA may sell tickets and provide service between Japan and the points they serve in the rest of Asia that does NOT involve the carrage to/from/through the US.

That would be like British Airways flying from LAX to NRT, and selling tickets to US passengers out of LAX. This type of flying is generally not permitted, which makes the NWA rights unique, and not the same as simply picking up pax in the US, then transiting a hub to a 3rd destination.

Typically what you said is true for most international route swaps/purchases, but the NWA rights were arranged under a seperate set of treaties that were negotiated as a result of NWA assisting in the start up of JAL at the end of WWII. The same rules simply do not apply because of this.

Nu

 

[PCL_128]

Occam has posted the details of this arrangement on a previous thread. I'm too lazy to search for it, but you certainly can if you're interested.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Heavy, Nu is correct. The treaty (1949 if memory serves) is different in detail than other agreements with U.S. carriers operating to/from Japan. Besides, as Nu pointed out, there are several other factors that make a Northwest buyout of Delta more likely if any deal at all occurs. But I also think Delta's name would end up on the airplanes a la America West / US Airways but with Northwest's name on the controlling corporation.

 

[Noserider76]

Heavy, Nu is correct. The treaty (1949 if memory serves) is different in detail than other agreements with U.S. carriers operating to/from Japan. Besides, as Nu pointed out, there are several other factors that make a Northwest buyout of Delta more likely if any deal at all occurs. But I also think Delta's name would end up on the airplanes a la America West / US Airways but with Northwest's name on the controlling corporation.

Let's just hope this nightmare merger never occurs. I really don't see any two large carriers getting together unless the economy goes south in a big way. Far too many complications and not enough synergies, as Parker would put it. Large carriers buying smaller carriers and small carriers merging with other small carriers will continue but I don't think we'll see any large companies get together.

Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but why go through all the pain of putting together two giant entities when next generation aircraft can connect almost any two dots on the globe. I think you'll see DL, AA, and CO expand rapidly throughout the Pacific on point to point routes using next gen aircraft and UA, NW doing the same to Europe. We're rapidly approaching the point where merging to get access to the Pacific/Atlantic is not worth the risk involved when you can do it yourself with the technology available now and even more so in the next few years.

 

[Diesel-9]

Too much logic there N-76. Sounds good, but when the Wall-Street Vultures see an opportunity, they go Ape ********************. Tilton wants a merger so he can pull more money out of the airline business than he did the oil business. Capitalism at its worse. NWA buying DAL won't be the initial move, but If UAL/Tilton go for CAL, all bets are off. Better to see him sell parts of UAL for shareholder value and Majors go for some minors than Big Bang 2, then its NWA and DAL, UAL and CAL, and AMR and ooooops, so sorry. And Dougie and U.S. West can go for Aero Mexico. (p.s. I was 10 1/2 when I found out life wasn't fair)

 

[Noserider76]

Too much logic there N-76. Sounds good, but when the Wall-Street Vultures see an opportunity, they go Ape ********************. Tilton wants a merger so he can pull more money out of the airline business than he did the oil business. Capitalism at its worse.

He's been crying for a merger ever since UA came out of BK but no-takers so far. The window of opportunity may be closing as the next administration may be much less merger friendly as well. I'm confident that when we look back in 5 years, things will look pretty much like they do now but people will still be speculating about the next big thing.

 

[jetflier]

I think more telling is the poison pill. To fend off a takeover by USAir/America West, Delta had to forego a poison pill provision. This would make it easier for Delta to be acquired. NWA, on the other hand, could not be so easily acquired as one would have to pony up a very healthy premium.

Schwanker

...as a part of its restructuring plan, NWA has a poison pill that in says that it can not be aquired by another airline with a gross revenue of not more than 2 billion so that rules an purchase by a big carrier.

 

[jetflier]

Have you seen any large airline mergers lately? USAir and AWA come to mind, and that was allowed because they complemented each other. Most legacies do not, and have some overlap. That doesn't seem to make Congress or local politicians feel good. The creditors may not care, but the politicians do. It would have to be a deal that allowed virtually no overlap (like the US and AWA deal), and very little job loss (Congress could see right through Parker at USAir). That limits the potential deals, but NWA and DL might do the trick. Other legacies do not fit that mold, and will have a hard time through regulatory channels. You can't just merge two companies together anymore. Local interests will make too much noise.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Hi General,

Look at the Yahoo finance section and note who the major stockholders are at DAL and NWA. DAL has Bank of America as well as other large banks. NWA major shareholders appear to be a combination of investment banking firms, one of which is an offshore investment firm. IMHO there is a plan, we just don't no what that is yet. I still think that the sharks are circling and the plan has been cast in stone since DAL and NWA entered into CH11 .
Soo, do I need to start wearing a hat again or do you need to buy a single breasted coat?

 

[General Lee]

Hi General,

Look at the Yahoo finance section and note who the major stockholders are at DAL and NWA. DAL has Bank of America as well as other large banks. NWA major shareholders appear to be a combination of investment banking firms, one of which is an offshore investment firm. IMHO there is a plan, we just don't no what that is yet. I still think that the sharks are circling and the plan has been cast in stone since DAL and NWA entered into CH11 .
Soo, do I need to start wearing a hat again or do you need to buy a single breasted coat?

If we merge we will combine our two airline names, Delta from ours and Airlines from yours. I honestly think all of the employees would rather have the Delta culture (or whatever the nonunion people here think it is) to the Steenland rule. Who knows?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[gutshotdraw]

Hi General,

Look at the Yahoo finance section and note who the major stockholders are at DAL and NWA. DAL has Bank of America as well as other large banks. NWA major shareholders appear to be a combination of investment banking firms, one of which is an offshore investment firm. IMHO there is a plan, we just don't no what that is yet. I still think that the sharks are circling and the plan has been cast in stone since DAL and NWA entered into CH11 .
Soo, do I need to start wearing a hat again or do you need to buy a single breasted coat?

No, get the General his leather jacket so he can look like a REAL pilot......

And General, I told you to get some new material. Sheesh.

 

[General Lee]

No, get the General his leather jacket so he can look like a REAL pilot......

And General, I told you to get some new material. Sheesh.

Nobody really knows if this would happen or be allowed to happen. All speculation there chief. But, we all know that there would be an employee uprising on both sides if a NWA and DL merger were to happen with NWA execs in charge. It's not likely. As far as the name or a name change, that could all be solved on the golf course. Really. Times are a changing, and I don't care what old treaties are out there, new ones could be created. Heavy Set pointed out a couple of past examples, and you and other lawyer wannabees can try to dispute him. Whatever. You need to update your own material, and thinking. Money talks.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JAM-BRO]

If we merge we will combine our two airline names, Delta from ours and Airlines from yours. I honestly think all of the employees would rather have the Delta culture (or whatever the nonunion people here think it is) to the Steenland rule. Who knows?

Bye Bye--General Lee

General

You are so funny!!!!! Does your wife still laugh at our old jokes....... NOT!!!!!

 

[General Lee]

General

You are so funny!!!!! Does your wife still laugh at our old jokes....... NOT!!!!!

I actually heard that from a NWA A320 FO I talked to in ATL. It was funny. He said that was the "going joke" in MSP.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JAM-BRO]

I actually heard that from a NWA A320 FO I talked to in ATL. It was funny. He said that was the "going joke" in MSP.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I think I heard it 5 yrs ago.

 

[General Lee]

I think I heard it 5 yrs ago.

Great, the guy told me it a couple weeks ago. It was great, and that is the way it probably would go if a merger were to happen. Have a great day.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[gutshotdraw]

Money talks.

Bye Bye--General Lee

And B.S. walks...in a double-breasted black uniform with a dorky hat .

I agree with you that there would be a revolt on both sides if Frankensteenland and the other idiots in Minni were put in charge of the combined airline. That's why I posted my opinion that Anderson and others in Atlanta would likely run the combined company. The name on the paperwork would probably be Northwest Holdings to avoid legal headaches but the name on the planes would probably be Delta.

The fact that money talks is precisely why it is likely to happen. If you look at who is on the BOD's, who controls the bankruptcy exit financing, etc. etc. ie: the same 'ol Wilson, Checci, State Street Bank cabal that stands to make s#!tpiles of money with a merger.

I still give it better than 2-1 to be announced and about even money to get approved.

 

[NuGuy]

The name on the paperwork would probably be Northwest Holdings to avoid legal headaches but the name on the planes would probably be Delta.

Heyas Gut,

The name will probably be Northwest Holdings (or similar) DBA Delta Airlines. The operating certificate will say something similar, like Northwest Orient Airlines, Inc DBA Delta Airlines, for the same reasons you outlined, to avoid legal troubles.

The Japanese are adamant that if NWA certificate/corporate entity goes away for some reason, the routes, slots and exceptions of the 1949 treaty drop dead. Since US-Japan routes only make up a fraction of that package, I doubt the US Government will have much leverage.

Sorry if this bums out Bo and Luke down in ATL, but that's the way it is. I agree with your odds, except it's even money if it's CAL or DAL. NWA still has some corporate governance/purchase rights to CAL that can be exercised, and it remains to be seen which way they go.

Nu

 

[Occam's Razor]

Restrictions on route authority or Fifth Freedom rights in Japan are not a factor. When the "B" slots were negotiated with the Japanese government, NWA gave up their unfettered rights to add one-for-one "beyond" flying in exchange for greater "transferability".

The negotiation was so successful, the route authority was used as collateral for the Revolving Credit line in '03.

 

[instructordude]

Great, the guy told me it a couple weeks ago in the bathroom in Minneapolis. It was great, and that is the way it probably would go if a merger were to happen. Have a great day.

Bye Bye--General Lee

????????

 

[General Lee]

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
"Great, this guy told me it a couple weeks ago in the bathroom in Minneapolis, some guy named Instructordude, telling a joke while naked in the stall next to mine, it was very awkward when I told him that SWA/FO was in LBB and not available. So, that is the way it probably would go if a merger were to happen. Have a great day."

Bye Bye--General Lee

????????


Crazy story.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetflier]

Restrictions on route authority or Fifth Freedom rights in Japan are not a factor. When the "B" slots were negotiated with the Japanese government, NWA gave up their unfettered rights to add one-for-one "beyond" flying in exchange for greater "transferability".

The negotiation was so successful, the route authority was used as collateral for the Revolving Credit line in '03.

Hey Mark,

Correct me if I am wrong,...does that mean that the Japan rights that NWA enjoys are fully transferrable to any other airline ?

IMHO the invest bankers and the other major holders of NWA stock are looking to make big buck$ on a leveraged buyout of DAL. By using DAL assets they sell to leasing companies they own similar to what they did at NWA, they create a mega cash flow cow, NWA/DAL.