An Honest Question for AirTran Pilots

[texman]

Not to mention it would cost Airtran pilots thousands per month.

Well you and I know that it is all about the Transaction Agreement, on how the next two years are going to play out. The problem I see is OIL hitting 100 + a barrel. What does GK do with two separate companies? Shut one down? I don't know. I just hope it works out for all.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well you and I know that it is all about the Transaction Agreement, on how the next two years are going to play out. The problem I see is OIL hitting 100 + a barrel. What does GK do with two separate companies? Shut one down? I don't know. I just hope it works out for all.

Well, maybe between SWA's hedging skills and AAI's lower non-fuel CASM, and the other synergies between the companies, we could work together to get through that period. That would be my hope, and I'm sure it will be yours, too.

 

[GuppyWN]

Ty,

What's your non-fuel CASM after you factor in your "new" contract?

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

What's your non-fuel CASM after you factor in your "new" contract?

Gup

I haven't seen those numbers published yet. According to pre-Contract numbers, AAI had the lowest pilot CASM of any major airline, so I don't think that the marginal increase we got will affect it by much.

It will also depend on how the "signing bonus" is amortized, too. I would imagine that was a one-time expense.

 

[texman]

Well, maybe between SWA's hedging skills and AAI's lower non-fuel CASM, and the other synergies between the companies, we could work together to get through that period. That would be my hope, and I'm sure it will be yours, too.

As we bust each others balzzzz, and give tough luv on this board, we all know as a team we can make or brake this deal. LW stated that we are hedged nicely for the next five years. So yes the synergies are going to be nice. I luv how we all play hard ball on this board. We as a pilot group (on both sides) have a lot of pride. I think both of the energies when combined, the company will grow. I think there is more planned than we can imagine.

 

[Ty Webb]

Agreed 100%. This is going to be a winning combination, and the next ten years will be very exciting to be a part of.

Thankfully, the issues surrounding SLI won't be solved on Flightinfo, but by the cooler heads that prevail on our MC's. They will make the best of a difficult situation and will hammer out the best compromise they can.

And then what? We live with it, and move forward. To a better, brighter future. . . . cue in Wagner's "Flight of the Valkyries" . . .

 

[funnyman12]

Talked to AAI merger committee member yesterday....he had the factual numbers that AAI is actually hedged better than SWA for 2011. I couldn't believe it either but it is in the SEC filings and I found it in AAI's 2nd qtr conf call, granted the conf call was in July. Still surprising.

 

[Ty Webb]

To paraphrase Seinfeld: "Oh, we know how to hedge the fuel, we just don't know how to unhedge the fuel. . . .".

 

[S3sundowner]

No matter what happens, the aai guys win big with this acquisition. By the time the deal closes and fences come down, we might be talking another 4-5 years. By then, the aai guys will more than likely have significant new hires below them plus retirements start to roll in. So the long term effects of even a staple (and I'm not suggesting that Ty) will still result in significant gains for your group. The guys holding weekends off now, will probably still be holding weekends off when the system "opens up". So for the next four years or so, you guys will keep what you have now but make A LOT more money too. So the sooner you guys make a deal with swapa, the better off you will be.

 

[texman]

Hell going from one job to the next to build time and be competitive to get on with swa, I haven't had a xmass or holidays off in the past ten years. Hopefully I can get weekends off out of this deal.

 

[malibuVride]

Well you and I know that it is all about the Transaction Agreement, on how the next two years are going to play out. The problem I see is OIL hitting 100 + a barrel. What does GK do with two separate companies? Shut one down? I don't know. I just hope it works out for all.

This is my concern! With LH heading the transition team, compounded with the fact that he and TO along with several committee members may get recalled after MH, I'm not sure the transition agreement will give this group much wiggle room. I would hate to find out what Gary's plan B scenario looks like!

My wife is already planning how to spend the SWAPA pay rates so I don't want to see this take a nasty turn!

 

[S3sundowner]

This is a win-win for you guys at aai. The sooner you guys get on the swa contract, the better for everyone. The swa contract will allow you guys to make significantly more with more time off. The average swa pilot I think is 115 tfp/month, and that's with a 17 day off line picking up 3-4 days. So if you are living in atl, your life could get a whole lot better very fast. What is the average over at aai?

 

[Lonestar]

I would hate to find out what Gary's plan B scenario looks like!

From what I've heard, Gary does have a plan B. Further, apparently LH has been warned about seperate ops...by Gary! If it's true that LH is running ALPAs transition team, and he has that kind of info, AAI guys should be truly concerned.

 

[waveflyer]

On another note. Ty- can you get your avatar to stop trying to f/ck me with his eyes?
It's just not my thing man

 

[Lonestar]

We would decerifiy ALPA the next day, just as USAIR did. The agreement then would be with SWAPA and ALPA and SWA, We would no longer be ALPA...

You should be careful what you wish for! Pulling a stunt like that would have you living under your current substandard contract for easily 5+ years. As a group, you would be costing yourselves millions that Gary would certainly appreciate saving.

Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite their face! This is disturbing given the huge gains in pay, benefits and QOL every AAI pilot will receive!

 

[S3sundowner]

I had a us air east guy on the jumpseat the other day. Not trying to get into that whole debate, but that guy would rather be out of a job than operate together.

 

[Kharma Police]

From what I've heard, Gary does have a plan B. Further, apparently LH has been warned about seperate ops...by Gary! If it's true that LH is running ALPAs transition team, and he has that kind of info, AAI guys should be truly concerned.

Sweet!, since we are making stuff up, I heard from a buddy of mine at SWA that your new union president likes to bite the heads off of bats!!!!!

 

[S3sundowner]

KP, do you think that GK doesn't have a plan B? Or C?

 

[Kharma Police]

KP, do you think that GK doesn't have a plan B? Or C?

I'm sure he does, but I doubt he's going to tell you or anyone else on this board the details.

 

[Bill Nelson]

I'm sure he does, but I doubt he's going to tell you or anyone else on this board the details.

Actually he told the world when they filed the public documents with the SEC. I'm sure you have heard of Guadalupe holdings right? Our management structured the deal so that Plan B was the default while they work to see if they can make Plan A work.

If the labor issues turn into ISSUES they will press forward with the default plan, Plan B=seperate operations. It is pretty genius really.

 

[S3sundowner]

AAI guys, can anyone answer my question about your average productivity? Like I said, at swa I hear it's about 115tfp/month.

 

[Kharma Police]

Actually he told the world when they filed the public documents with the SEC. I'm sure you have heard of Guadalupe holdings right? Our management structured the deal so that Plan B was the default while they work to see if they can make Plan A work.

If the labor issues turn into ISSUES they will press forward with the default plan, Plan B=seperate operations. It is pretty genius really.

Question: If Gary Kelly was so concerned about labor issues, then why not give SWAPA the chance to work out the deal before the purchase just like the fantastic offer that was proposed to the F9 pilots?

Answer: This deal is too important to let SWAPA and ATN ALPA torpedo it.

It's the stock holders Monopoly money that Gary Kelly is playing with. I don't think he would fork over 1.4 billion to just, "work to see if they can make Plan A work."

 

[Kharma Police]

AAI guys, can anyone answer my question about your average productivity? Like I said, at swa I hear it's about 115tfp/month.

We don't get paid per trip we get paid by the hour so I'm not sure what information you are looking for.

 

[S3sundowner]

KP, like I said earlier, even with a staple, you guys win big. I'm not saying that's going to happen, I'm just pointing out the worst possible deal for you guys is a winner. I think swapa will offer you guys a fair deal. You won't be touched for at least 3-4 years so you guys should be more than happy on the whole. The sooner this goes down, the sooner you guys get a fat raise, etc. Hopefully your mec understand this, and I'm sure they do. You can drag this out, or strike a deal and be making swa $ in a matter of months.

 

[RedDogC130]

We don't get paid per trip we get paid by the hour so I'm not sure what information you are looking for.

Ok how many hours of credit do most guys average per month?

I for one in January have 94 block scheduled which pays a little over 121 trips for pay.

SO airtran guys what is the average hours credits do you get per month?

 

[S3sundowner]

Ok, what is your average pilot productivity in terms of hours flown/month?

 

[S3sundowner]

My friend at swa said he flew 85 hours last month for 112 tfp. He said that's right about average.

 

[Kharma Police]

Ok how many hours of credit do most guys average per month?

I for one in January have 94 block scheduled which pays a little over 121 trips for pay.

SO airtran guys what is the average hours credits do you get per month?

I'm the wrong guy to answer since I'm on reserve but last month I flew around 30 hours and will get paid for 78.

 

[texman]

My friend at swa said he flew 85 hours last month for 112 tfp. He said that's right about average.

SWA's overall average is 105 tfps with about 68 to 78 block hours. AT aircraft are productive but not there crews. From what I understand is they fly an average of 85 hours a month and are paid based off that. So take there snap shot rate on the 27th of sept that is what will be compared in sli negations. If it goes to arbitration ALPA lawyers will try to use everything including the new pay scale which is still 48% less overall.

I average about 110 a month at 101.99, and have 17 to 18 days off a month. Thats just using ELLIT. My friends that are 5-9 year guys are vja all the time they live in base though. So they do about 135 tfps at 75 to 80 block a month but still have 16 days off a month. The benefits are awesome. I agree once AT membership is educated on the whole picture it will be a game changer. But maybe AT might have something we might like? Don't know, but what I do know is we have to wait to see the educational pieces on both sides.

 

[RedDogC130]

so our reserve pays a min of 90 tfps so even if you sit reserve here you will make a crap load more on top of the raise you get off the tfp side.