AMW Pilots - 5 yrs, 2.5 yrs prison time

[Flying Illini]

Could we maybe say, "Democracy (or at least the freedoms we enjoy here in the U.S.), the cause of, and solution to, all of this country's problems?"

Victims always get the short stick, and there is something seriously wrong with that. Sometimes the ACLU just makes me want to hurt someone. I wonder if they would fight for a prisoner's rights if that criminal killed one of their (ACLU leaders') family members? If they didn't help the criminal out, they would be hippocrites, if they did, they would be helping the killer of a member of their family...maybe then, and probably ONLY then, would they begin to see how wrong their ways have been.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Illini wrote: "Sometimes the ACLU just makes me want to hurt someone. I wonder if they would fight for a prisoner's rights if that criminal killed one of their (ACLU leaders') family members? If they didn't help the criminal out, they would be hippocrites, if they did, they would be helping the killer of a member of their family...maybe then, and probably ONLY then, would they begin to see how wrong their ways have been."

What exactly was the ACLU's role in this?

 

[Vik]

pwned

 

[BRIGADEAVIATOR]

adfsdf

Huh??

I mean did they really think that they could get by and fly an a/c without someone eventually catching on.

I think we need to make our prisons more feared like the ones you hear about in third world countries that whip and torture you. Prisons should be a punishment not a glorified country club (camp cupcake and martha stuart) Its like someof these prisons are more modern than my old high school. But i second that we focus too much on prisoners rights than vicitms rights, after all shouldnt the prisoners lose their rights for screwing up?

 

[FN FAL]

I mean did they really think that they could get by and fly an a/c without someone eventually catching on.

I think we need to make our prisons more feared like the ones you hear about in third world countries that whip and torture you. Prisons should be a punishment not a glorified country club (camp cupcake and martha stuart) Its like someof these prisons are more modern than my old high school. But i second that we focus too much on prisoners rights than vicitms rights, after all shouldnt the prisoners lose their rights for screwing up?

Here's some food for thought...

Probation Kiosks.

Home Arrest.

The jails and prisons are operating above capacity, so instead of locking them up, they are getting probation kiosks to check in...it's sort of like an ATM that uses biometrics and pin. Once a week or whenever specified, the parolee or or probationer just goes to where one of the probation kiosks is, puts a palm print on it and answers the usuall battery of questions a probation officer would ask. If the person owes a fine, they can then swipe their credit card through the card reader and make a payment.

House arrest...that's pretty self explanatory. If you're interested in the house arrest programs in your state, city or county...just do a www.google.com using that location in the search with home arrest program as the other search phrase.

 

[Rick1128]

We have more people in prison b/c our prisons aren't that bad. Cable, three square meals, showers, work-out facilites, great medical, dental care, etc.
Other countries just chop off a hand for burgulary, no prison time for you, no wasting the taxpayers' hard earned money on cable tv for you, please put your hand here on this block. Other countries are far tougher on crime than america is. We are more concerned about the prisoner's rights than we are about the victims rights.

Try watching A&E's prison series if you believe this. Very few prisons have cable. When they do, it is usually because the prison design doesn't allow for reception of regular TV. Too much re-bar in the concrete. The showers are there not for the prisoners' direct benefit, but to keep down disease. Dental care in most prisons is just pulling a bad tooth. Medical care is great i you consider that the care giver is most likely only a nurse or a unlicense doctor. Usually one step ahead of a review board hearing. As for other prisons, some countries like Europe are better and some are worst.

In Africa and Asia, if you have an accident in an aircraft the flight crew is arrested. If the court finds the crew at fault, off you go to prison. Even if the accident was out of the crew's control.

In this case, it as driven by polictics and publicity, period. It appears that this was a first time offense of DUI. I haven't looked at Florida's law, but most of the states I have looked at show the standard sentence for the first time as lost of license for 6 to 12 months. Plus most laws refer to operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway. Personally, I can not see an airport as a public roadway.

There as way too much polictics, media and publicity i this case and it got blown way out of proportion. While they did wrong and needed to be punished, the punishment was way too excessive for the crime.

As for the ACLU. Their reason for being is to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. From attack by anuone and everyone. While we as a people may not like a particular stand on it's part, if you protect it for all, you must protect it for one.

 

[seethru]

In this case, it as driven by polictics and publicity, period. It appears that this was a first time offense of DUI. I haven't looked at Florida's law, but most of the states I have looked at show the standard sentence for the first time as lost of license for 6 to 12 months. Plus most laws refer to operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway. Personally, I can not see an airport as a public roadway.

There as way too much polictics, media and publicity i this case and it got blown way out of proportion. While they did wrong and needed to be punished, the punishment was way too excessive for the crime.

Frankly I don't care that this was a "first time" offense. More probably it was the first time they were caught. Also you should consider that these guys weren't just a couple of flunkies who got boozed up at the local tavern, hopped into their pickup truck and got stopped by an alert police officer. They were trained professionals, who I am sure have received many hours of human factors training on why you don't fly while intoxicated.

Let's not forget the number of people who would have been at direct risk of their impairment and decision to fly.

One other thing that bothers me, and should you too, is that in a way they represent your (our) profession. I don't need boneheads like this out there. There's a line from here to the horizon of well qualified individuals just waiting for the opportunity to fill their shoes who won't make such a stupid decision.

 

[WMUchickenhawk]

You mess with the bull, you get the horns. I have no pity for the pilots. What they did was amazingly stupid. It could have ended with a huge number of fatalities. To me this is akin to walking public place with guns blazing, and getting lucky that no one got killed.

 

[FN FAL]

Frankly I don't care that this was a "first time" offense. More probably it was the first time they were caught.

You might be right, it wouldn't be the first time that airline pilots have proven that even an intoxicated person can fly an airliner.

 

[Vector4fun]

I thought one of the reports said the Capt was already on probation for a DUI? If so, he certainly didn't learn much from that.

Like someone else said, this wasn't two 20 yr old Seamen off a long cruise or a couple knucklehead college kids. They were 40-something year old adults that stayed out drinking in a sports bar til 4:30 am; before a 10:30 flight.

Time to grow up or get help was years ago....

 

[FN FAL]

I thought one of the reports said the Capt was already on probation for a DUI? If so, he certainly didn't learn much from that.

Like someone else said, this wasn't two 20 yr old Seamen off a long cruise or a couple knucklehead college kids. They were 40-something year old adults that stayed out drinking in a sports bar til 4:30 am; before a 10:30 flight.

Time to grow up or get help was years ago....

True, true and true.

 

[MissKittyKat]

Hi I was reading some nice interesting posts. How sad on both sides of the coin. Number 1, thanks that it wasn't our mother, daughter, sister, brother or your new born on that flight out of Miami. The good side, no one got killed. The good side, these two men can think about what they did wrong and hopefully come out whole out of this whole thing.

Hopefully a positive experience can come out of this. If I had made the same mistake of two many drinks I just would have called in sick and probably lost my job. But they lost so much by not doing so. I'm sure outside of the alcolhol issue they were probably good pilots on the inside with obviously a terrible disease. Let's be happy that the outcome of them flying the plane and crashing it did not happen.

I think the punishment is fair.

 

[FN FAL]

Hi I was reading some nice interesting posts. How sad on both sides of the coin. Number 1, thanks that it wasn't our mother, daughter, sister, brother or your new born on that flight out of Miami. The good side, no one got killed. The good side, these two men can think about what they did wrong and hopefully come out whole out of this whole thing.

Hopefully a positive experience can come out of this. If I had made the same mistake of two many drinks I just would have called in sick and probably lost my job. But they lost so much by not doing so. I'm sure outside of the alcolhol issue they were probably good pilots on the inside with obviously a terrible disease. Let's be happy that the outcome of them flying the plane and crashing it did not happen.

I think the punishment is fair.

here's something to think about, the pilots are in prison for "what could have happened".

Next thing you know, I'm sitting here on the computer posting some of my usuall rant and a bunch of guys in balaclavas and "homeland security" vests, bust down my front door. Normally, that wouldn't bother me so much, but these guys are toting German made submachine guns and they tossed a flash bang grenade on my stairwell.

I ask for a warrant, as I'm being hog tied on the floor and I'm being told shut up...

Later, after I get my phone call from Gitmo, I find out that somebody was able to articulate that because I was a "gun collector", that I was a person of "concern". Or in long hand, a "suspected terrorist".

After all, a gun collection could be used to hurt 1 - 99 persons...woulda coulda could be.

Yea, Cloyd and his co-captain were factually guilty and then later found legally guilty of felony DUI...but to say that they "almost killed hundreds" including babies or the sperm of some guy sitting in seat 19C, is a stretch...

 

[BRIGADEAVIATOR]

I hope they drop the soap...

 

[BushwickBill]

Does this mean the airlines will start hiring?