AMF down in BIL

[citabriapilot]

I too have to agree with Dirty Beech. I feel terrible for what happened, and have no doubt that both men were great guys and great pilots. They wouldn't have been in that plane in the first place if they weren't.

However the accident happened, Dirty Beech's analysis will come into my mind the next time I do an approach with a dogleg at the FAF.

 

[frmrBUFFdrvr]

I have to side with the posters with the reasoned, professional demeaner on this one. I didn't know KK and I only knew CC from going through Basic Indoc together over 5 years ago. But I do know AMF's training and screening programs and neither one would have been in the position they were (captain in training and Training Captain/Check Airman) if they didn't have what it took to do the job right.

That being said, all of us are human and thus we are all capable of making mistakes. When I was getting ready to get out of the Air Force, I knew of an 11 year Air Force officer, KC135 instructor pilot at the primary training base for that aircraft, who busted his ATP check ride for the very thing this "speculation" is proposing. Fortunately for him, it happened in the Los Angelas basin and it only resulted in the examiner saying "OK, lets go home."

Much as we all hate to see it, most aviation accidents have "pilot error" as a contributing factor. To ignore that fact and start calling someone a "fcucking Doouche" just shows your own immaturity level.

As was pointed out, there are no flight recorders on these aircraft so, barring an obvious mechanical problem, there will most likely never be a definative answer to what happened. But if you can give me ANY other explaination that puts the aircraft 7 miles from the airport, at or just above the final approach altitude, I'd be MORE than happy to hear it.

 

[flx757]

Why does everyone think that just becuase there are no FDRs or CVRs (I won't even touch the "witnesses" comment. That is the LAST thing that ever turns up useful information. All you get from "witnesses" are different versions of the "engine sputtering" just before the accident... )that the NTSB won't be able to come up with a "definitive answer"? They do it every day. Perhaps a little knowledge of the investigative process is in order??

I have nothing against taking information that might come to the forefront and using it to increase awaweness of this particular approach. But to make some blanket statement that "here is what they did" is irresponsible. No matter HOW you try and rationalize it.

 

[DirtyBeech]

757,
No one made a blanket statement of " This is what by God happened." I know I was very careful to use such large words as might, speculate, guess, maybe, probably, and so forth to describe what happened. None of those words are are usually linked with certainty. So, after you educate us about the investigation process, you can loosen up your pilot error trip wire, and maybe read the posts for what they are.

 

[flx757]

I never even uttered the term "pilot error". Didn't remotely suggest it either was or wasn't a factor in this accident. Maybe YOU need to "read the posts".

G'day all. Let us know what you decide was the "probable cause".

 

[PA31Driver]

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060329X00363&key=1

 

[skyhwk74]

FLYING WEST


I hope there's a place, way up in the sky
Where pilots can go when they have to die.
A place where a guy could buy a cold beer
For a friend and a comrade whose memory is dear.
A place where no doctor or lawyer could tread,
Nor a management-type would e'ler be caught dead!
Just a quaint little place, kind of dark, full of smoke,
Where they like to sing loud, and love a good joke.
The kind of a place that a lady could go
And feel safe and secure by the men she would know.

There must be a place where old pilots go,
When their wings become heavy, when their airspeed gets low,
Where the whiskey is old, and the women are young,
And songs about flying and dying are sung.
Where you'd see all the fellows who'd 'flown west' before,
And they'd call out your name, as you came through the door,
Who would buy you a drink, if your thirst should be bad,
And relate to the others, "He was quite a good lad!"

And there, through the mist, you'd spot an old guy
You had not seen in years, though he'd taught you to fly.
He'd nod his old head, and grin ear to ear
And say, "Welcome, my Son, I'm proud that you're here!
For this is the place where true flyers come
When the battles are over, and the wars have been won.
They've come here at last, to be safe and alone,
From the government clerk, and the management clone;
Politicians and lawyers, the Feds, and the noise,
Where all hours are happy, and these good ol' boys
Can relax with a cool one, and a well deserved rest!
This is Heaven, my Son. You've passed your last test!"
— Captain Michael J. Larkin, TWA (Ret.), 'Air Line Pilot' magazine, February 1995

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

I never even uttered the term "pilot error". Didn't remotely suggest it either was or wasn't a factor in this accident. Maybe YOU need to "read the posts".

G'day all. Let us know what you decide was the "probable cause".

I think that Dirty Beech's & RedEye 1 earlier posts probably have hit the nail on the head, I'll be interested to find if the NTSB's investigation determine what the CDI on the HSI was set at, subject to surviving the crash, that will be definitive in what happened.

I find no harm in the intelligent & sensitive discussion of what might have gone wrong regarding an aircraft accident, as pilots we all make mistakes, I am sure of that. Such discussions are by no means to be seen as denigrading the crew of this unfortunate flight.

My base chief pilot crashed on approach into SFF just after Thanksgiving a couple of years back, I have still not heard the definitive probable cause on that from the NTSB. So I am quite happy to entertain thoughtful discussions on this tragic crash, if just to get a jump start on probable cause and learn from it.

Mr 757, I think you need get off your sanctimonious horses ass and stop berating those who see fit to try and figure out this event and share their opinions with their fellow pilot's, especially the AMF crews.

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

couldn't have said it any better Mr. Bollocks. I didnt know CC but I knew KK and he was a genuine and wonderful person. He will be missed, but most of all, the memories of being in indoc together and being a coworker of his at syx will bring a smile to my face.