Ameriflight (PDX): Please describe career progression

EngineOut

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First of all, please allow me to preface this thread with the disclaimer that I’ve performed a search and reviewed the “thousands” of Ameriflight threads prior to posting.

I anticipate relocation to Portland within a year. I am hoping to hang my hat with Ameriflight for 8+ years in Portland. From reviewing the AMF posts, I haven’t been able to get my hands around career progression at Ameriflight. I understand the duty days are long, the equipment operated, and the starting pay.

My priorities (in order) are locale, MX, QOL, pay, stability, and equipment (advancement and upgrade). By all accounts, it appears Ameriflight fits the bill to a tee.

It’s time to return the favor of moving around for my career to my old lady. Oregon is her call – time to come back home and buy a house, start a family, and be in a position to compete for a major/national opportunity in ten years or so. She has a great job, so household income isn’t a factor, but I won’t work for free just because I can.

If any long-term AMF’ers would care to reply, I have some questions:

1) Are there annual raises at AMF or do you increase your salary by upgrading equipment only?

2) Do duty days get shorter with seniority?

3) After five years, assuming a logical progression and ceteris paribus, how much could I expect to be making? How long would my duty days be? What would I be flying?

4) Am I nuts?

Thank you in advance for your replies.
 
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de727ups

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Huh?
PM trybysky. He's been there six months in SEA and in on the 99 already. Six months makes him a long timer at Amflight.
 

AirMugsy

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I'm planning on applying to AMF as a PDX pilot this month when I get mins. I was just up in Portland this past weekend to check out the city,, great place. I can't wait to get my application in.
 

Lucky13

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EngineOut,


Yes you are nuts!
 

TheDogsBollocks

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EngineOut said:
First of all, please allow me to preface this thread with the disclaimer that I’ve performed a search and reviewed the “thousands” of Ameriflight threads prior to posting.

I anticipate relocation to Portland within a year. I am hoping to hang my hat with Ameriflight for 8+ years in Portland. From reviewing the AMF posts, I haven’t been able to get my hands around career progression at Ameriflight. I understand the duty days are long, the equipment operated, and the starting pay.

My priorities (in order) are locale, MX, QOL, pay, stability, and equipment (advancement and upgrade). By all accounts, it appears Ameriflight fits the bill to a tee.

It’s time to return the favor of moving around for my career to my old lady. Oregon is her call – time to come back home and buy a house, start a family, and be in a position to compete for a major/national opportunity in ten years or so. She has a great job, so household income isn’t a factor, but I won’t work for free just because I can.

If any long-term AMF’ers would care to reply, I have some questions:

1) Are there annual raises at AMF or do you increase your salary by upgrading equipment only?

2) Do duty days get shorter with seniority?

3) After five years, assuming a logical progression and ceteris paribus, how much could I expect to be making? How long would my duty days be? What would I be flying?

4) Am I nuts?

Thank you in advance for your replies.
PDX is a good place for piston pilots to biuld up multi-time, for a turbine you may be in for a long wait.

Pay and increases are determined by equipment flown and years of service.

Most of the runs are PDX based, a lot of the turbine runs are outstationed.

PA-31, C402, BE99, 1900, Metro's are the equipment.

MX is pretty good.

AMF is one of the better 135 companies to work for.
 

nfinity8

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Ameriflight is a good place to build great time. Low timers can go from a piston to a turboprop in a relative short time depending on company need. You will fly mostly nights and will sleep all day, so you won't really have a life throughout the week but you will be building that time, which is a good thing. Most of the people I have met have been great but there are a few exceptions...Be very leary of the San Juan Base. The base MGR (I use the term loosely) is the biggest A$$ in PR. He suffers from a "short man" complex and treats the pilots like SH@^!! Ask anyone that works in PR or anyone that's been here or knows of J.M. (the flight attendant). The opinion is always the same (so don't take my work for it). All in all, Ameriflight is a really good place to build time...
 

RichardRambone

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Anyone flight instructed for them? I was maybe interested in building up time that way until I got my 135 mins. But then again night flying sounds tough for my lazy arse.
 

trybysky

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Pdx

PDX is a awesome base if you don't mind flying a cheiftain for a year or so. I would recommend it. You're home every night, even if it's from 7 pm to 6am. You may have somewhat long layovers but the flight time is generally 2 to 4 hours a day. Just being home everynight would be worth it to me. Dispatch is great, maintenance is great, pay is ok for what we're doing (better than most), and PDX is killing for pilots!!! They need you. We have one of our cheiftain pilots on temp. in PDX right now.
 

EngineOut

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Where are the layovers? Roseburg, Kfalls, North Bend, Ontario, LaGrande, Redmond, Crescent City? As long as it's somewhere with an Abby's Pizza, I can live with it :)

Thanks for all the PMs and info, too. I'm pretty sure this is the right thing to do for us!
 

fokkers&beer

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dunno
If your thinking of long term employment, and are dying to fly small airplanes out of PDX, Amflight may not be the right place. Guys seem to stick around at Empire though. If you don't mind flying a Caravan, the lifestyle is mucho better, the aircraft are impecable, and the pay is quite a bit more.
There always is the option of the 121 program at Empire (although nothing 121 is run in PDX at this time.) Not a bad place to work. I think back at my time at Empire with the fondest memories. The PDX caravan pilots were loads of fun, it has been one of the more entertaining jobs I have had in aviation.
 

coolyokeluke

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Ameriflight is a decent place to work, better than it's competitors, with the exception of Empire, in terms of the niche. Portland is a great town. What I meant to say was: it rains all the time, it's depressing, go back to California! Turbine equipment in PDX was quite senior, people are homesteading there with no intention of moving on. Don't screw up. Notice that Ameriflight only records negative comments in your training records. They use the PRIA system as a liability mitigation system. The thinking is that if someone screws up, they will make you look as bad as possible at all costs, that way a future employer can't come back to them and say you didn't tell us about so and so. I personally know of three individuals this has happened to. They were able to get jobs, but it set their careers back 1-2 years.
 

TransMach

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QUOTE

They use the PRIA system as a liability mitigation system. The thinking is that if someone screws up, they will make you look as bad as possible at all costs, that way a future employer can't come back to them and say you didn't tell us about so and so. I personally know of three individuals this has happened to. They were able to get jobs, but it set their careers back 1-2 years.

UNQUOTE


Hey, Coolyoke,

Have you looked at the rule itself and determined what the employer is required to report, or are you speaking from your current educated position.

You can find the rule at Public Law 104-264, codified to Title 49 USC. Commonly known as PRIA, the Pilot Records Information Act.

Take a look and let me, or us, know what you think.

TransMach
 

nfinity8

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From what I understand...and it's only from the university of "Rum and Coke" but...They can not legally state any negative SH#^ in your PRIA records. If you passed the training you have nothing to worry about. Even if you get written up...(and I did) it won't show up in your PRIA record. They will threaten you with whatever they have but in the history of all freight airlines...only Ameristar (or CherryAir...I can't remember) has succesfully sued a pilot because of a training contract...No other airline has a leg to stand on. An airline CANNOT sue you for a training contract...I left AMF before my contract was due and they sent a letter but nothing else. They haven't got a legal leg to stand on... Do Not Worry and do what you gotta do and go where you gotta go... They will never show loyalty to you...don't show loyalty to any airline untill you're where you want to be. ( words of wisdom passed on to me...) and be weary of JM in San Juan...He's the Devil!!!!
 
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citabriapilot

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Nfinity,

Sounds like you got burned really bad in San Juan... Care to share any specifics?
 

nfinity8

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I wasn't down there very long, but long enough to know the base mgr treated the pilots that were based there like they were all red headed step children. I heard they even sent him to anger management classes that were to only take a week...he was there for three. (it could just be a rumor, but hey, what's this board for anyway...lol) If anyone is thinking of going to SJU, I would definitely suggest calling and talking to any one of the line pilots that are flying down there now. I'm sure they will fill you in on everything you'll need to know about what it's like working with the base mgr and acp. Anyway, the company itself is a good place to build time and they actually pay pretty well...better than most. -my 2 cents
 

coolyokeluke

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TransMach said:
QUOTE

They use the PRIA system as a liability mitigation system. The thinking is that if someone screws up, they will make you look as bad as possible at all costs, that way a future employer can't come back to them and say you didn't tell us about so and so. I personally know of three individuals this has happened to. They were able to get jobs, but it set their careers back 1-2 years.

UNQUOTE


Hey, Coolyoke,

Have you looked at the rule itself and determined what the employer is required to report, or are you speaking from your current educated position.

You can find the rule at Public Law 104-264, codified to Title 49 USC. Commonly known as PRIA, the Pilot Records Information Act.

Take a look and let me, or us, know what you think.

TransMach

TransMach,
Perhaps I did not speak accurately regarding PRIA. However, I speak from experience. Ameriflight sent the entire training record and 1) a letter of firing/reprimand addresed to yours truly, 2) a multi page essay from
Stu Schrock (sp?) highlighting all the errors made in training which drew a pointed conclusion that I should not fly and it was reprimanding my instructors. It came in a huge manila envelope and is sent to all employers requesting the PRIA stuff. Can they enclose all this via Public Law 104-264? Probably, but I felt that was certainly above and beyond the call of duty to sully somebody's reputation. I contacted some of my instructors at Ameriflight who were quite inflamed about this letter of reprimand they received, they were angry about it, and I got letters of recommendation from them. They wouldn't have passed me if I wasn't able to do the job. I've said it before, I'll say it again: I was truly sorry I screwed up, you don't know how many times I've replayed the situation in my head. But to go out and smear someone like that is uncalled for. I never even flew with or met Stu Schrock.
Like I said, Ameriflight can be a good stepping stone for your career. But beware, they can be vindictive.
 

TransMach

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Pria

Coolyoke,

I pulled Public Law 104-264 from the Government Printing Office for you, here's what it says ... (I've abridged portions to get to the point without 20 pages of text)

RECORDS THAT MUST BE REQUESTED AND RELEASED BY AN AIR CARRIER

``(B) Air carrier and other records.--From any air carrier or other person that has employed theindividual at any time during the 5-year period preceding the date of the employment application of the individual, orfrom the trustee in bankruptcy for such air carrier or person-- ``(i) records pertaining to the individual that are maintained by an air carrier (other than records relating to flight time, duty time, or rest time) under regulations set forth in-- ``(I) section 121.683 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; ``(II) paragraph (A) of section VI, appendix I, part 121 of such title; ``(III) paragraph (A) of sectionIV, appendix J, part 121 of such title; ``(IV) section 125.401 of such title; and ``(V) section 135.63(a)(4) of such title; and [[Page 110 STAT. 3260]] ``(ii) other records pertaining to the individual that are maintained by the air carrier or person concerning-- ``(I) the training, qualifications, proficiency, or professional competence of the individual, including comments and evaluations made by a check airman designated in accordance with section 121.411, 125.295, or 135.337 of such title; ``(II) any disciplinary actiontaken with respect to the individual that was not subsequently overturned; and ``(III) any release from employment or resignation, termination, or disqualification with respect to employment.

PERMISSION TO RELEASE RECORDS ``(2) Written consent; release from liability.--An air carrier making a request for records under paragraph (1)-- ``(A) shall be required to obtain written consentto the release of those records from the individual thatis the subject of the records requested; and ``(B) may, notwithstanding any other provision of law or agreement to the contrary, require theindividual who is the subject of the records to request to execute a release from liability for any claim arising from the furnishing of such records to or the use of suchrecords by such air carrier (other than a claim arising from furnishing information known to be false and maintained in violation of a criminal statute).

RIGHT TO CORRECT INACCURACIES ``(9) Right to correct inaccuracies.--An air carrier that maintains or requests and receives the records of an individual under paragraph (1) shall provide the individual with a reasonable opportunity to submit written comments to correctany inaccuracies contained in the records before making a final hiring decision with respect to the individual.

RIGHT OF PILOT TO REVIEW CERTAIN RECORDS ``(10) Right of pilot to review certain records.-- Notwithstanding any other provision of law or agreement, an air carrier shall, upon written request from a pilot employed by such carrier, make available, within a reasonable time of the request, to the pilot for review, any and all employmentrecords referred to in paragraph (1)(B) (i) or (ii) pertaining to the employment of the pilot.

Also you can find more current info in Advisory Circular 120-68(d) with a June 2004 date.



Now, all that being said, did your past employer:

1. Release all the reqired information and documentation in their posession?
2. Release information or documentation in excess of the requirements?
3. Release inaccurate information?


If your answer to question 2 or 3 above is YES, you should tell them, make
them make any corrections necessary and if they have damaged you, get legal
advice.


If they did their job, carried out their responsibilities and complied with the rule, well ... that is what the rule was intended to do.


If I can help you more, just let me know.


TransMach
 

coolyokeluke

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Transmach,
Thanks for the info. I believe they infringed on #3 at least. I did a one hour consult with an attorney (the free hour from the AOPA legal plan) and he thought much of it could be removed but it would've cost me money to purse it and that's in short supply with me, being at my first year with a new company. Maybe someday. In any case I'm with a good company now and won't have to deal with this stuff for a while, God willing. Perhaps when I'm ready to move on in a few years I will try and get some of the more offensive and subjective portions out of it.
Thanks for looking that stuff up!
 
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