American

[ACAFool]

Anyone know how many people they still have on furlough? And do they have more plans to furlough or are recalls in their future?

Thanks

 

[Starlizard]

around 2900. (Number doesn't include those that were in training or awaiting training when 9-11 happened.)

no plans to recall. AA is still in cost cutting (gut labor) mode.

 

[Hoot R. Hunter]

no plans to recall. AA is still in cost cutting (gut labor) mode.

additionally: no plans to recall. APA is still in the cost cutting (gut pilot labor) mode as well.

 

[psysix]

When will they be hiring again?

 

[catIIIc]

Probably never, by the time they get around to getting all the furloughees back the next downturn will happen and will furlough again.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

how far back do the furlough's go?

 

[B6Driver]

1988 hires.

 

[typhoonpilot]

1988 hires.

:bomb:

This should be interesting.

TP

 

[ACAFool]

1988 hires.

Is this a typo (maybe 1998) or is it really 1988. Or is that because of the senior twa's.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Or is that because of the senior twa's.

BINGO!

 

[nitrogen]

Actually

For real AA pilots furloughs go back to mid 2000 I believe.

Lowest seniority around 9700 or so.

They have no choice but to recall by early next year and with the early retirements going the way they are it could be a lot sooner.

Is the union trying to give away the farm??

Yeah, but I dont think theyll be able to pull it off this time.

We'll see.

 

[AA717driver]

They have no choice but to recall by early next year and with the early retirements going the way they are it could be a lot sooner.

HOHOHOHOHO!!!! ROTFL!!!!

AMR will resist recalling until the schedule is crumbling around them and they have chief pilots going door to door looking for pilots hiding from crew sched.

Until they can't hide the fact that they are cancelling flights due to crew shortages they will not recall.

Thanks for the laugh, though. TC

 

[furloughfodder]

HOHOHOHOHO!!!! ROTFL!!!!

AMR will resist recalling until the schedule is crumbling around them and they have chief pilots going door to door looking for pilots hiding from crew sched.

Haha! The AA pilots won't be hiding from crew sched. They will fly all the overtime they can get their hands on, just like they always have....at the expense of the furloughed guys. No different.

The only thing that will stop them is when they start timing out.

 

[Draginass]

I wouldn't expect any recalls for several years. The APA leadership is in a concessionary mood and is probably going to give away big productivity enhancements to management. It's happening now. The working AA pilots are flying lots more trying to keep their W-2s as high as possible.

Recalls . . not likely. I'll bet a lot of AA retirees would accept a contract back in a heartbeat, if Arpey were to offer it.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Any of you other Sky Nazis out there (yes TC that means you too ) read that report from the ACA?

I read it cover to cover yesterday and when I got home the first thing I did was sell 2/3's of my options. Doesn't look like things are going to be very rosy for AA in the near future. If ever.

 

[TWA Dude]

I read it cover to cover yesterday and when I got home the first thing I did was sell 2/3's of my options.

FWIW my broker said hold them. We always complain about how wrong analysts usually are about aviation but hey, if two analysts disagree completely then one of them must be right. Maybe.

 

[aa73]

Just one man's opinion... I do believe we will see limited recalls next year due to the retirements and schedule enhancements expected to pick up next year. I don't think AMR can afford to reduce the schedule again next summer, and lose market share, all because they have crew shortages. It has always been the case that AMR likes to keep furloughees out for at least 1 year... and that will be up next summer. I think we'll see recalls by the fall of '06.

Hiring.... well, not for a while, but not as long as most folks think. I would expect as high as 40-50% bypass rate on reclls, so let's just say about 1500 will come back.. at 20-30/month we're looking at 5 years. As long as a downturn doesn't immediately happen, I think we'll see massive hiring again a la late 90s due to the HUGE # of retirements in the 2010-2020 range (700+ a year, eventually.)

Furloughs by numbers and date of hire... 2856 total on the street. Junior TWA pilot on the property Oct 88, junior AA pilot Feb 14, 2000. (Here comes another AA/TWA integration missive... duck!) Junior TWA captain is around 8500 seniority - late '85 hire - and junior AA captain is around 5000 seniority, around a '90 hire.

Hope my optimism bears fruit. We need it.

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

AA73,

Are you J.P.?

 

[jetexas]

One interesting aspect of an AA recall will be the flowback issue. I agree that when AA does recall one day it will be due to a staffing crisis.
Flowbacks will be jamming the door trying to escape Eagle. It will be interesting to see if the company tries to hold them back or slow their recall to get Eagle back up to speed with 400 vacanices. That won't be taken lightly I am sure!

 

[AA717driver]

aa73--Not to nit-pick but junior TWA CA is early summer '88. (My friend, Dr. Evil is close to returning... ) I use to agree with you on the recall v. bypass isssue but I don't know. There are a handful at JB and AirTran, smaller numbers at SWA and FEX/UPS and a smattering like me at other decent jobs. There are a lot at Focus/Tradewinds (props to CSY) and Kalitta. S80/FO/LGA/D looks pretty good to that group. Plus the flowbies will come running as fast as they can. It will be interesting.

TWA Dude--There you go with that glass-half-full stuff again.

Now, I've got to go kick Kitty's a$$ for calling me a "Sky-Nazi"! TC

 

[Dangerkitty]

Now, I've got to go kick Kitty's a$$ for calling me a "Sky-Nazi"! TC

AMR up 4.65% today. Man am I kicking myself!!

TC you are/were one of us. You came to the dark side. There is no going back. :laugh:

 

[Draginass]

aa73--Not to nit-pick but junior TWA CA is early summer '88. (My friend, Dr. Evil is close to returning... ) I use to agree with you on the recall v. bypass isssue but I don't know. There are a handful at JB and AirTran, smaller numbers at SWA and FEX/UPS and a smattering like me at other decent jobs. There are a lot at Focus/Tradewinds (props to CSY) and Kalitta. S80/FO/LGA/D looks pretty good to that group. Plus the flowbies will come running as fast as they can. It will be interesting.

TWA Dude--There you go with that glass-half-full stuff again.

Now, I've got to go kick Kitty's a$$ for calling me a "Sky-Nazi"! TC

Depends on what kind of job there is to come back to. Seems Ralph & company are busy finding ways to let the company work pilots much harder and longer trying to protect those W-2s of the senior guys, until they can take their money and run, leaving the wreckage behind them.

Sitting 20 days of reserve a month in NY on a still-to-be-reduced payrate and pension of a Stupid 80 FO doesn't look very good to me.

Need to keep a close eye on NW and Delta. Stenland has his chainsaw out and is systematically destroying the unions on his property. Delta's going after their pilot union as well. It's just a matter of time before Arpey pulls out the ax wants an "industry standard" contract as well. When this is all over, I think Connie Kalitta might look like a pretty good employer, relatively speaking.

 

[aa73]

Sitting 20 days of reserve a month in NY on a still-to-be-reduced payrate and pension of a Stupid 80 FO doesn't look very good to me.

Well, you must be one of the ones that will vote Yes to another paycut?

It's guys like you that have already decided "we will take another paycut" that the APA loves to hear about.

How about, "Heck No we will not take another paycut and we will stand firm this time" instead.

Remember, the membership (rank and file) is very united against taking more concessions. You sound like you think the deal will be implemented without a vote. It HAS to go to a vote, dude.

 

[aa73]

aa73--Not to nit-pick but junior TWA CA is early summer '88. (My friend, Dr. Evil is close to returning... )

sorry, you're right. I'm still trying to figure out the hiring cycle of TWA in the 80s.. seems like it went from '85, to the OZ merger in '86, and then no more new hires till '88.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I use to agree with you on the recall v. bypass isssue but I don't know. There are a handful at JB and AirTran, smaller numbers at SWA and FEX/UPS and a smattering like me at other decent jobs. There are a lot at Focus/Tradewinds (props to CSY) and Kalitta. S80/FO/LGA/D looks pretty good to that group. Plus the flowbies will come running as fast as they can. It will be interesting.TC

I would agree with TC here. I was furloughed from USAirways for 8 years. There were just over 300 guys in that category and roughly 180 returned. It was a surprisingly large number considering the length of furlough. The big reason that many, myself included, returned was for the pension that we were still accruing longevity in. If that pension hadn't been there when the decision to return was made I think we wouldn't have had as many return. If the AA pension stays intact then you'll get a healthy percentage return.


TP

 

[XTW]

TC you are/were one of us. You came to the dark side. :laugh:

Slight correction. TC never made it to the dark side. The fence was too high before the furough axe fell. Besides, he's always been kind of "dark" in his own way!


X

 

[skidbuggy]

HOHOHOHOHO!!!! ROTFL!!!!

AMR will resist recalling until the schedule is crumbling around them and they have chief pilots going door to door looking for pilots hiding from crew sched.

Until they can't hide the fact that they are cancelling flights due to crew shortages they will not recall.

Thanks for the laugh, though. TC

As a furloghed K-Mart Cowboy myself it really torqued me off a few weeks ago when, while being on a full fare ticket, they cancelled my flight home due to lack of cockpit crew.

 

[Draginass]

Well, you must be one of the ones that will vote Yes to another paycut?

It's guys like you that have already decided "we will take another paycut" that the APA loves to hear about.

How about, "Heck No we will not take another paycut and we will stand firm this time" instead.

Remember, the membership (rank and file) is very united against taking more concessions. You sound like you think the deal will be implemented without a vote. It HAS to go to a vote, dude.

Voted "hell no" the first time. If it does come up again, being furloughed, I'm denied a vote. I think the APA will fold yet again. Heck, they won't even put their finger in Arpey's belly-button to keep travel privileges for furloughed members. When push comes to shove, this rhetoric of unity is just cheap talk. The 69's won't hesitate to throw the others under the bus, just like US Air did. Arpey's waiting to see how NW is going to turn out before he pushes that contract across the table and says "sign it or we'll get via the courts."

 

[aa73]

Voted "hell no" the first time. If it does come up again, being furloughed, I'm denied a vote. I think the APA will fold yet again. Heck, they won't even put their finger in Arpey's belly-button to keep travel privileges for furloughed members. When push comes to shove, this rhetoric of unity is just cheap talk. The 69's won't hesitate to throw the others under the bus, just like US Air did. Arpey's waiting to see how NW is going to turn out before he pushes that contract across the table and says "sign it or we'll get via the courts."

I don't know, Dragin... I don't think Arpey would be stupid enough to squander away most of his compensation (stock otions) by just declaring BK... with more than 3.5B in cash! I don't think the BOD would ever allow him to do that. He's consistently proven that he is against the BK concept, makes sense because they want to remain in control of the airline, not give it away to some judge. NWA and DAL were in a different category, financially. They had to.

Despite the 69ers, I don't think our pilot group is stupid enough to "BOHICA" once again. no matter what propaganda is being put out by Hunter & Co. If they want PBS that badly, fine give it to us but it better come with a hefty pay raise. I think we all know that getting a PBS will not cause more furloughs, with all the early outs every month. Or if not a PBS, then FAR max, which would cause lines to be built to 85 instead of 78 - heck, most of our guys are flying 85 as it is now. What's the difference?

NO MORE PAY CUTS!

 

[aa73]

AA73,

Are you J.P.?

Nope, sorry. Been asked that already... I must sound like what he sounds like?