Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

American Flyers Investigation

  • Thread starter TDTURBO
  • Start date
  • Watchers 5

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Upset examiners

Before Riddle pushed for reinstatement of self-examining authority, the school used the three examiners on the field for students' practical exams. These examiners had a monopoly. They probably earned most of their income off ERAU students. They knew it and abused it, as witnessed by an inordinate number of failures.

I say inordinate for two reasons:

(1) In those days there was nothing more unreasonable in the world than an ERAU stage check. These stage checks were tough (and often unrealistic and immature), but the rationale was that if one could pass an ERAU inquisition one could pass an FAA practical, as proven by

(2) the pass rate shooting up dramatically when the school sent students to non-PRC examiners.

Either way, the PRC examiners lost business, first, by the school sending students elsewhere, and, second, when self-examining authority obviated the need for examiners. These DuPage examiners found themselves in the same boat and, in this Flyers investigation, have found something on which to hang their hats.

The point of it all is there's more than meets the eye than allegations of substandard students and phonied-up paperwork. Axes are being ground. I seriously doubt the DEs on the Flyers' field are going on a safety crusade only.

On the other hand, given my experiences, I wouldn't be surprised if there is at least a little truth to the certificate issuance irregularities. I remember at ERAU how it was felt that while some students were marginal no harm was perceved in issuing them a Private. School officials knew the student would continue training at the school under controlled circumstances and rationalized the student might improve by the time he/she was eligible for his/her Commercial. The Flyers situation appears to be similar. In either case, it was absolutely wrong. That puts the certificates of the instructors who trains these individuals and the stage check pilot on the line, and is a safety and deception issue.
 
Last edited:
I did the instructor course a year and a half ago in ISM and I must say that it was the greatest training I've recieved at any level. The instructors were extremely detailed and cared about what they were doing. The people running the joint seemed to care but were extremely irratable and removed. Even so, there should be no doubt about the quality of training at the instructor level. Keep in mind that it is done under part 61 and you still have to visit the FSDO (or a DE if you go to Pompano Beach).
 
A nice piece of pie...

The DE business is EXTREMELY lucrative in Chicago - there is more than enough to go around - plus, each year they get together and raise the going rate of what someone has to pay for checkrides. Last time I signed a student off, which was a while ago, the going rate for an advanced ride was $350. I have no idea what it is now.

I haven't been flying that long, and when I took my private ride, I paid $100, it would have been $90 if the guy didn't have to make a lengthy drive from Sherman County...that's big city/small town, though.

Of the examiners that we used to send students, I know several who do nothing else - as in, that is their one and only job. This was disturbing at the time and, to be honest, it still is - because the Chicago FSDO had stated to people seeking to become DE's that it was not to be their only job. I don't know if other FSDO's feel this way, but there was one examiner in particular who would say that they could do "2 1/2" checkrides per day. Two full checkrides and one re-test. At $350 a pop for each, you do the math.

I know the examiner that I preferred should have a wing in his house named after me for all the business that I gave him, but that's another story altogether!

I don't think it's a slice of pie issue though - if all the examiners got together and said "Wow, people who come out of the AF program are ill-prepared", that's one thing - if those examiners had an axe to grind with AF, that's another altogether. If students are ill-prepared, go to the source, don't call the FAA, for heaven's sake!

Interesting that it made the Tribune, not only that, the FRONT PAGE - must have been a slow news day.

-brew3
 
all i can say, is WOW! Hope this gets all straighten out, and Illini, I wouldnt worry to much about us as instructors there at one time we will be involved.
 
I worked for American Flyers for a little over 3 yrs. During that time I got 141 examiner authorty. There are a lot of advatages for the school, b/c no one really fails. If there is a part that is unsat, then the student can get retrained on that and then take the ride over again. This is not much different than many of the major airline school houses. AA, TWA and UAL have train to proficiency. You don't get a check ride until the instructor thinks you are ready, and then I have heard some pass that really shouldn't.

I never passed anyone who did not meet the requirements. Some of the students just couldn't get it, and yes the company was not happy about it, but I could not risk my certificate just to pass someone - no matter how much money they have spent. We had some eternal students that we had to move to part 61, b/c they could not pass w/n the 141 time constraints.

AF has extremely good instructors, and the instruction is top notch. Their materials (books and training aids) could be better, i.e. the on-line CFI refresher is a joke, but so are all the others I have attended.

Mr. Huser has a nick name (smiling knife). He and Mr. Harrington are typical coprorate American A-holes and are totally money driven. I am surprised the instruction hasn't suffered, but they only hire good instructor that seem to have good integrity. I never worked near the headquarters so I never had the day to day pressure from the head honchos. BUT I was laid off on X-mas eve by Harrington himself over the phone, then rehired 2 weeks later when they realized they actually needed someone with experience.
 
Self-examining politics

Munga said:
If there is a part that is unsat, then the student can get retrained on that and then take the ride over again. This is not much different than many of the major airline school houses. AA, TWA and UAL have train to proficiency. You don't get a check ride until the instructor thinks you are ready, and then I have heard some pass that really shouldn't.
On the other hand, the majors can wash out those who don't "get it." It's just not politic to bust someone, or to bust too many, in a 141-self examining school. However,
I never passed anyone who did not meet the requirements. Some of the students just couldn't get it, and yes the company was not happy about it, but I could not risk my certificate just to pass someone - no matter how much money they have spent.
Good for you, my man. I was the same way. Which might explain in part why I was sent back to the line after 1 1/2 years as an ERAU stage check pilot. Do not ever compromise your certificates. Guaranteed, the school won't be there to back you if you ever pass someone who didn't deserve it.
 
I did my Instrument training at AF in DPA, back in the summer of 1989. It was very good training. There was a strong focus on $$, but the training was very standardized, and was as good or better than the training I was getting at the large University I got the rest of my stuff at.
 
Quote from NBC 5 website

FAA officials also said they would like to know where the Tribune got its report, because they said there is no such FAA report. American Flyers is under open review, they said, and they do not talk about matters under review, Wojciechowski further reported.

"This is all written as if there is fact," said an FAA spokeswoman. "And there is no fact."


___________________________________________________

The students listed in the article in the trib were graduated by the Former Assistant Chief Instructor who is quoted as saying she was made to do it.

Why do you think she doesn't work there anymore if she was doing stuff like that. There are no allegations of those kinds of things happening since she left!
 
Media,
Go figure.
 

Latest posts

Latest resources

Back
Top