American Decapitated.

[jarhead]

KE093

Quite a profile for someone not yet 18 years of age, with 777, 747, f-100 and other a/c being flown. Thanks for your mature, and enlighted view of geopolitical events. I'll be sure I consider your views in the furture, as someone who has the correct and final solution.

What's next on your agenda.....the space shuttle by the time you're 19?

 

[ThomasR]

Food for Thought......

29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jîzya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

TonyC,

You have sealed any avenue of reproach with first hand information and real life experience. You are even forgiving enough to provide understanding that there are issues of interpritation with some of the material. So ....., the part about fighting against those who........"acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture,.........."

Could that mean that it is understood that some Jews and Christians are not enlightened to the religion of truth and some are enlightened. So the fight would be to those who refuse to acknowedge the validity of the Qur’an, either by ignorance, arrogance or prejudice, and not to the entire Jewish and Christian faith...?

I hope this made sense.

 

[Draginass]

A few observations:

1. I resigned from the Republican Party. My moto is now, "anybody but a Republican." Our economy is a mess, the war is going to cost $50 BILLION, and it obvious that the Secretary of Defense and military commanders have lost control of troops doing some of the most politically and militarily sensitive work of the post-war. Whether a few terrorists got scared by dogs or not or lost some sleep is inconsequential. As illegal combatants they enjoy no protections and are lucky to be alive in the first place. What is important is that this stupidity has damaged the credibilty of the US and show the world that mililtary commanders through the General officer level lost control in an environment that demands the most control.

2. The Iraqis have demonstrated they are unworthy of freedom. They should be allowed to go back to the kind of goverment that they want . . . a terrible despot. Our policy should be of containment and terrible pushishment for transgressions against us. That they understand. They don't understand responsiblity and they won't cherish freedom . . . . because they aren't willing to fight for it. This was obvious when right after "liberation" there weren't thousands of Baathists swinging from lampposts. Arabs don't understand "freedom," nor do they want to.

 

[enigma]

A few observations:

1. I resigned from the Republican Party. My moto is now, "anybody but a Republican." Our economy is a mess, the war is going to cost $50 BILLION, and it obvious that the Secretary of Defense and military commanders have lost control of troops doing some of the most politically and militarily sensitive work of the post-war. Whether a few terrorists got scared by dogs or not or lost some sleep is inconsequential. As illegal combatants they enjoy no protections and are lucky to be alive in the first place. What is important is that this stupidity has damaged the credibilty of the US and show the world that mililtary commanders through the General officer level lost control in an environment that demands the most control.

2. The Iraqis have demonstrated they are unworthy of freedom. They should be allowed to go back to the kind of goverment that they want . . . a terrible despot. Our policy should be of containment and terrible pushishment for transgressions against us. That they understand. They don't understand responsiblity and they won't cherish freedom . . . . because they aren't willing to fight for it. This was obvious when right after "liberation" there weren't thousands of Baathists swinging from lampposts. Arabs don't understand "freedom," nor do they want to.

Edited: After reading this a second time, I edited to delete the "you have my support" sentence. I was trying too hard to find common ground.

I'll never vote for a candidate that I can't support. I might vote for a third party, but not for someone I can't support. Never. If Joe Lieberman was running against Bush, I would be able to vote for Joe.........John Kerry is no Joe Lieberman.

enigma

 

[KE093]

All those aircrafts....

Flown: I put all the planes that I've been on as a passenger, because I just didn't feel like to leave the thing blank. Is there anything wrong with that? And how am I supposed to 'fly' them as a pilot if I made public that I don't even have PPL yet.

 

[skyking1976]

Re: All those aircrafts....

Flown: I put all the planes that I've been on as a passenger, because I just didn't feel like to leave the thing blank. Is there anything wrong with that?

No. Just don't tell us that your mom was flying them and you were in the right seat... (a little inside joke... )

SK

 

[KE093]

Re: Re: All those aircrafts....

No. Just don't tell us that your mom was flying them and you were in the right seat... (a little inside joke... )

SK

Yeah... I am totally lost....lol

 

[TonyC]

Re: Food for Thought......

So ....., the part about fighting against those who........"acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture,.........."

Could that mean that it is understood that some Jews and Christians are not enlightened to the religion of truth and some are enlightened. So the fight would be to those who refuse to acknowedge the vaidity of the Qur’an, either by ignorance, arrogance or prejudice, and not to the entire Jewish and Christian faith...?

I hope this made sense.

Thomas,

I would be a fool to try to interpret substantial portions of the Qur'an or to speak on behalf of the religion. My only aim was to address s.o.sJTB's post that claims Jews and Christians are "A - OK" in the eyes of Muslims. The passages I cited were to draw attention to the opposite view in the Qur'an itself. Beyond that, I won't pretend to know what any of it means or is supposed to mean to a Muslim.

I often hear people point to the similarities of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam by demonstrating that they all worship the same God. While that appears on the surface to be true, a closer examination of the specifics reveals a marked intolerance for other religions as a fundamental tenant of Islam.

For example, Christianity recognizes the deity of God the father, God the son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. Often referred to as a trinity, or three-part God, it is still a single God. As such, christians would consider themselves to be believers of monotheism, or a single God.

Islam, on the other hand, denies the deity of God the Son, claiming that he was just another prophet. Now, unless you can develop a significantly more flexible version of logic to explain the contrast, you will have to agree that these two views are incompatible. Either Jesus was God, as Christians claim, or he was not God, as Muslims claim. It cannot be both. Consequently, the two religions cannot exist in harmony.

That's not to say that two people of the different faiths cannot exist harmoniously - - people of varying beliefs do just that every day - - it's the two RELIGIONS that are incompatible. s.o.sJTB's post would have you believe the Muslim FAITH accepts Jews and Christians as peaceful monotheists. That simply is not the case.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Our economy is a mess

Huh? All leading economic indicators are UP. Even the democrats have laid off beating this dead horse...you should consider doing the same.

A reminder: The economy began is downward slide under a Democrat president. It really tanked (if you can call it that) after the dot-com bust tech stock bust and the terrorist attacks of September 11th and their aftermath. President Bush's only actions concerning the economy were to implement tax cuts....and they're working...in a big way.

the war is going to cost $50 BILLION

Actually, it's gonna cost a hell of a lot more than that....but we have to do this....so our kids don't. Here's some perspective...$750 billion....that's how much money we spend in this country in one year on education. Now that's a lot of money.

The Iraqis have demonstrated they are unworthy of freedom

No, they haven't. Ya know that Al-Sadar, (or whatever his name is) the 'radical fundamentalist islamic cleric' that has his own militia? Do you know that there is a huge Iraqi uprising against this guy right now? The anti-Al-Sadar crowd is many times larger than his supporters...even though he is holed up in a part of Iraq that has his largest following. This guy, and others like him, are gonna be short for this world when Iraqis are in charge of their own country.

Our policy should be of containment

.......impossible. Absolutely impossible.

and terrible pushishment for transgressions against us

How are we gonna do that when these so-called "torture" photos caused so much of a stir? Democrats in Washington are gonna ride this horse until it dies....they're calling this the "Silver Bullet" that will get President Bush outta office.

They don't understand responsiblity and they won't cherish freedom . . . . because they aren't willing to fight for it

Look what so many in the Arab world are willing to do for a voice. They've had no freedom for so long...they're willing to do the sorts of things we've seen recently just to be heard. Give them freedom, give them a voice, and they won't have to do this sort of thing.

This was obvious when right after "liberation" there weren't thousands of Baathists swinging from lampposts.

Maybe that's just evidence that most Iraqis are more civilized than even you'd like to admit.

Look, for me it all boils down to this: The benefits of winning this war are endless, and the cost of loosing this war devastating. One party's leadership has demonstrated a complete disregard for this very important effort, instead choosing to play politics in every area that they have their hands in. (even the gawd dam intelligence committee! ) They've shown that NOTHING is more important to them than winning back "their" white house.....not even the safety of the American people. NOT EVEN THE LIVES OF OUR SOLDIERS FIGHTING ABROAD.

They deserve nothing from us. They deserve no position of leadership or responsibilty...and they have PROVEN that they deserve NO CHANCE to fix what they see as problems, because they just DON'T GET IT.

That party? The Democrats. Their leaders? Tom Daschle, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Charlie Rangle, Hillary Clinton, Terry McAullife, and John Kerry.

 

[Singlecoil]

Democrats in Washington are gonna ride this horse until it dies....they're calling this the "Silver Bullet" that will get President Bush outta office.

Who said that? A reference please.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Who said that? A reference please.

"I heard someone - and I would not be in a position to say who it was, but a Democrat staffer - saying, 'Aha, this is the silver bullet we've been waiting for,'"
-Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla

 

[Ty Webb]

Back to the topic- the atrocious act that sparked this whole debate-

With apologies to the family of Mr. Berg, I think that the video should be required viewing for people like 350Driver who were on this board just a few weeks ago saying how there is no difference between Palestinian terrorist acts against civilians, and the Israeli army's attempts to prevent those acts.

That type of nonsense is spewed by people who have little to no understanding of these Muslim fanatics. The Israelis have been dealing with these people for the last 50 years, and with a huge amount of restraint, I might add.

I can only compare this to the way that the media has made such a huge issue over the acts of a few idiots at the prison humiliating Iraquis, yet make little to no mention of the same Iraquis dragging burned corpses of our soldiers through the streets only a few days prior. . . .

And where is the "moderate" Muslim community when this this type of stuff happens? Their silence is deafening.

 

[Blue Dude]

Who said that? A reference please.

More here.

 

[Singlecoil]

Wow that is amazing. A Republican heard some low level staffer make a comment. Did he hear this in the john? It doesn't matter. This must be a reflection of official Democratic Party policy if he heard it from someone who he refuses to name, but he admits is not an elected official. Give me and the rest of the American people a break.

I heard on flightinfo.com that the Republicans want to nuke Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

 

[Timebuilder]

Low level staffer...

Sometimes, the people you and I might regard as being minor functionaries actually have a great deal of access to information.

This must be a reflection of official Democratic Party policy if he heard it from someone who he refuses to name, but he admits is not an elected official. Give me and the rest of the American people a break.

What it may mean is this: a professional politician will probably know enough to not let out some damaging information about how he plans to use an event against his opposition. That same person's staff member, not as experienced or schooled in this technique may not have that same presence of mind.

Does this pass the smell test, in other words, does the opinion expressed support the normal manner of conduct we can expect, ie, do or say anything to obtain power? Yes.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Wow that is amazing. A Republican heard some low level staffer make a comment. Did he hear this in the john? It doesn't matter. This must be a reflection of official Democratic Party policy if he heard it from someone who he refuses to name, but he admits is not an elected official. Give me and the rest of the American people a break.

I heard on flightinfo.com that the Republicans want to nuke Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

After the Senate Intellegence Committee memo snafu, I'm more than willing to believe this. Like TB said, Democrats will do whatever it takes to get "their" White house back.

This is also remeniscent of the John Kerry "foriegn leaders" comment....but I'm sure most Democrats are more than willing to accept that what he said is the truth...despite him not being able to name them.

 

[jarhead]

Yes, Unlike the Republicans, who will NOT do anything to keep the White House occupied by the incumbent.

Wake up....its politics and politicians. There is no honor among any of them. Thieves and liars to the last soul. ALL parties included.

 

[AV80R]

American Decapitated

“WHY THE **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** ARE YOU PEOPLE DOWNLOADING AND WATCHING THAT? THATS **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**DISGUSTING.” Lrjtcaptain”

-- Well, personally I believe many people have already forgotten why we are fighting this war. I think that by watching it we can remind ourselves why we are there to begin with. I know I did. Our choices imho are: we fight the war on their turf or they come to us.

-- I do not believe all Muslims are bad people, but I am disgusted with how silent “the good ones” are. You’d think at least all the American Muslims would get together and start protesting, they could maybe have huge demonstrations against terrorism, suicide bombings, hijackings, female "honor killings," etc, etc... sort of like a “Million Muslim” march or something. But all we ever hear from them is: Islam is a peaceful religion. Well, if it really is I must say it is concealed really well. .

-- Here is just an observation: Year 2004 I believe equals year 1425 in the Muslim calendar. (their calendar starts when Muhammed fled from Mecca to Medina I believe, I might be wrong?) That mean they are almost “600” years behind us. So “technically” you might say they live in the “crusade-era” right now. Sadly, I think that’s sort of what the Christians tried to do some 600 years ago, convert by force, or else… Might be a bad comparison but it almost appears to me they are trying to repeat our mistakes?

“Frankly, what was seen in that video is the lowest low of anything even distantly related to humankind. NO, it could NOT have been worse. Different, perhaps. Worse, no.
TonyC”

-- Totally agree


-- Here is another link for those who would like to see the video of Nicholas Berg’s murder, as well as Daniel Pearl’s execution, and even some pictures from 9/11 (people jumping from WTC to their deaths).


http://www.military-secrets.com


-- All those pictures and video clips are extremely disgusting, they are horrible. You will probably get sick to your stomach and you might even cry some (I did).

-- But I think that if we forget why we are fighting this war, we might not be able to prevail. --

So to anser your question "Lrjtcaptain" - I watch it not to EVER forget!

“Did you watch the video? If so does it make you mad to see it, and if it does make you mad are you mad at the cowards that did this to him, or the few soldiers who supposedly brought this on by humiliating the iraqi prisioners?
Flyifrvfr”

-- Please tell me you are joking! The American soldiers did NOT bring this on, the bastards who killed Berg did!!! A few rotten eggs in the US military cannot spoil the great job the 99.999% of the US and coalition forces do. Just look at Najaf and Falujah, if it wasn’t for the fact the American forces were desperately trying to avoid civilian casualties, while being constantly shot at may I add, those places would be history by now. “Humiliating the Iraqi prisoners” as opposed to cutting ones head off??? Can’t believe you even made the comparison.

Ps. Sorry about all the colors and different fonts. Fairly new to this, wanted to test it out

 

[f18pugsley]

Funny how this kind of news does not make headlines. Maybe because it does not meet the media's anti-American apologetic view of the world.

Pugsley

Deseret Morning News, Sunday, May 09, 2004

To Iraqis, prisoner abuse story is largely a non-issue

By Robert C. Gross


It is Friday, May 7, 2004, the Muslim "weekend."


And the news here is apparently much different than there. From my early morning looks at the news channels, it looks like the "prisoner story" is dominating the national news. It appears to us to be taking on all the signs of an overreaction to a very negative and unfortunate incident.


It's amazing to us that people are calling for Rumsfeld's resignation or firing. Interestingly, it's mostly a non-event for most of the Iraqis with whom we work or meet. A typical reaction came from one of our key staff I'll call Abdul. He has a degree in English literature, is in his mid-30s, served in the Iraqi Army during the Iraq-Iran War, has a side business in women's cosmetics, and works with us in the coordination of several of our social institutions. He is somewhat typical of the many more educated Iraqis.


When I questioned him about how most Iraqis view the prisoner abuse story, his first reaction was a startled stare. He didn't really even connect with my question. When I explained more fully, he said, "Well, actually, sir, to be quite honest with you, we think that it represents a small dot on a large piece of paper. We know that the hearts of almost all Americans are good and they do so much good for our people. And remember, sir, we lived under Saddam for nearly 30 years. To be quite honest with you, sir, we believe that the media is not fair and has not been fair for this entire war. After all, we Iraqis watch every despicable act committed by terrorists as they are glorified by Al Jazeera."


Nearly all our translators and Iraqi staff indicate basically the same thing. Many Iraqis, even those who have televisions and watch Al Jazeera, are mostly nonplussed by the prisoner story.


I do not mean to excuse or justify these acts in any way. It is an obvious black eye and tarnishes all that we're attempting to do here. The overwhelming consensus among the military working here in the Palace is abhorrence and an attitude that the enlisted personnel and their commanders ought to be dealt with appropriately and severely after a full investigation. Most are concerned that this is further tarnishing unfairly the military image back in the states, painting broad strokes across the entire canvas. I can tell you from my own experience that, for the most part, this is the best trained and dedicated group of people who could ever possibly serve the United States.


But Abdul is right. We just wish this could be kept in proper perspective. What we are thinking about often doesn't make the news. Many of you, I know, are interested in what we're doing in Fallujah and Najaf, Sadr's current headquarters. In Fallujah, it's not a matter of if, but when we eventually go in. We currently are working with an Iraqi general who is standing up an all Iraqi force to patrol the city. We hope to neutralize the opposition as much as possible, thereby preventing collateral damage. Eventually, however, it will be necessary for the Marines to regain control over the city.


The same can be said for Najaf but for slightly different reasons. The Ayatollah Sistani has made it clear that he does not want to see Coalition Forces enter the city, one of Shi'as holiest sites. As each day passes, however, Sadr appears palpably to lose followers and influence. He is still a danger, however, and poses a threat. Yesterday, some of his militia attacked one of our coalition convoys close to Najaf: the score was 40 to 0 in favor of the coalition. He's probably gradually and painfully "getting it." Leadership sometimes requires great patience.


This is one of those times.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Robert C. Gross, a Utahn, is a senior adviser of Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 2004 Deseret News Publishing Company

 

[jarhead]

That story is pure BS. Every responsible news agency and governmental agency, and the administration itself reports that this has enraged the people in Iraq. Then you post such anectotal drivel as to deny the reality. It's out there (reality), join it; the truth shall set you free.