American and Delta drop the ASAP program

[Browntothebone]

Not exactly how it works. At least not if you've got a decent ASAP MOU in your contract.

How does yours work at airtran?

 

[PCL_128]

How does yours work at airtran?

Horribly. We didn't negotiate an ASAP LOA into our agreement, so we have no real protections. The program we had at Pinnacle was far superior. Our Safety Chairman there worked for years to put a great program in place, and it provided great protections for our members.

 

[Captain X]

Agree, our program XJT is solid.

YES. Outstanding and should be use as a model for the entire ERC at each carrier!

 

[AirMorgan]

SkyWest also has a solid ASAP program. I wish DAL would follow their lead. It is a must have for airline pilots (light years ahead of the NASA form).

 

[NuGuy]

SkyWest also has a solid ASAP program. I wish DAL would follow their lead. It is a must have for airline pilots (light years ahead of the NASA form).

Heyas,

The good news is that NWA is keeping their ASAP and FOQA programs for the forseeable future, and are working full time to transition them to DAL.

Nu

 

[ReverseSensing]

The fact of the matter is that any LOA between management and labor with respect to the 3-party MOU is on somewhat shaky ground legally. The boilerplate FAA MOU specifically disallows any side agreements with respect to ASAP.

But the FAA seems to basically turn a blind eye to them and the side letters can do a great job of explicitly showing management where they can and cannot go. If your management is crap, all the side letter does is put them on notice as to what kinds of shenanigans will lead the pilot group to walk out. If your management is actually somewhat committed to non-punitive data-gathering for the purposes of improving safety margins, a side letter can be very useful to flesh out the operating rules of ASAP and to add some protections that the piece of crap FAA boilerplate doesn't include, like full deidentification.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Stick with ASRS for as long as it lasts.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

It's not inconceivable that a line check might be part of an ERC-recommended training event, but if that was not the case that would be a problem. What happens in ASAP needs to stay in ASAP, so evidence of "leakage" into the flight standards apparatus should be a huge red flag. A side letter can be an effective way for a pilot group to clearly articulate its expectations with regard to anonymity and confidentiality, but it's useless without a credible threat to withdraw from the program if those protections are breached.

ASAP can be a great program, but it requires both the local FAA and airline management to completely buy into the revolutionary (for many) philosophy that we as professional pilots are out there on the line trying to do it the right way. It's worked well at my airline, but that required getting a few old-school types on the sidelines before we could move forward.

Even the strongest ASAP can be abused once, but I'm certain that both the FAA and our management are clear on the fact that the immediate consequence of using self-disclosure to cut someone out of the herd would be the end of the program.

 

[NuGuy]

Stick with ASRS for as long as it lasts.

ASRS provides far fewer protections than a properly implemented ASAP program.

With ASRS, you still get nicked for the violation, you just don't have to serve the time.

Nu