American Airlines - Like Sinus Drainage,

[eagleatr]

American Eagle doesn't fly ATR's to MSN anymore. If you're riding on an ATR, than it has to be Trans States, but that would be a long ride from STL.


EagleATR

 

[saabtrash]

Wow! I was just wondering if Eagle or Trans states started flying into EAU, chill dude.

But actually, since you offered I will take the itinerary.

 

[WrightAvia]

Here's proof positive, though, that the public doesn't care about our problems (incompetent crew scheduling, etc.). They just want results.

Why would the customer care about crew scheduling, deregulation, RJDC, code sharing, contract negotiations, outsourcing, flow backs, flow throughs, FARS, duty time issues, flight time issues, ceilings, visibility, TFR's, whether or not you can make your rent payment...etc etc etc? That's not the customers job description.

When you go into wallmart and buy a gas grill, do you ask the salesman how long he was on his feet that day or how come his tech employer decided to downsize, leaving him to fend for himself as a sales associate at a chain store?

It'll be a sad day in hell, that I gotta go into a restaurant for dinner and have to sit at my table and listen to my waiter/waitress whine on incessently about how bad it is to work there. Nor do I want to go into the kitchen and see how they peel potatoes.

 

[AAflyer]

I guess the real question from the first post is does Jetblue, Aitran, SWA charge for liquor in coach? I thought they did so what is the point?

If you do not want to pay for liquor in coach then take JB or SWA to Mexico City. By the way was that the crapy customer service?

Did the plane depart and arrive on time?

Was the plane clean?

Were you treated well by the FAs and gate agents?

Are you accumalting miles on the AA loyalty program?

Or arey ou pi$$ed you had to buy a beer, and you are going to let everyone know because of that AA is horrible airline.

I believe Greyhound goes down to Mexico city since JB and SWA do not. It is about a 24 hour drive, and you still have to pay for your beer.

AA

 

[Typhoon1244]

Why would the customer care about crew scheduling, deregulation, RJDC, code sharing, contract negotiations, outsourcing, flow backs, flow throughs, FARS, duty time issues, flight time issues, ceilings, visibility, TFR's, whether or not you can make your rent payment...etc etc etc? That's not the customers job description.

Uh, yeah. That was my point. Thank you for emphasizing it.

A better example would be, for example, a waitress coming to my table and teling me they've run out of pistachio ice cream, and I respond by berating her incompetence and declaring Waffle House "like sinus drainage...with silverware."

The general public is too stupid and spoiled to realize that there are certain realities that all airlines deal with.

 

[SDdriver]

The general public is too stupid and spoiled to realize that there are certain realities that all airlines deal with.

Remember that is your customer you are talking about, the same people that pay your pay check. My buisness would fold if I thought that about my customers, they can be as spoiled and as stupid as dirt for all I care, as long as they pay the bill, I am happy.

SD

 

[Typhoon1244]

Remember that is your customer you are talking about, the same people that pay your pay check.

Please.

I do everything I can to keep my passengers happy because I want them to keep coming back to my company. I shake hands, kiss babys, explain and apologize for delays, help with carry-on bags, etc, etc.

That doesn't mean I'm going to get on "The Hangar" at Flightinfo.com and talk about what a genius the average U.S. airline traveler is, okay? I'm not going to praise the nimrod who tries in vain to stuff his fifty-gallon duffel bag in the overhead bin muttering "it always fits on ____ Airlines." I'm not going to applaud the folks who think it's a good idea to have eight or nine beers and then get on an airliner. I'm not going to talk about those wonderful folks who would rather risk their toddlers' lives than put them in a car seat. I'm not going to tell you how much I respect the man who accuses me of being a lousy pilot because I won't launch into a level five cell (LTGCCCCG) with a gusty forty knot wind. ("That Piper Cub with 'Freight-Dog Air' painted on the side took off...why can't you?")

The TSA needs to turn down those magnetometers. They're cooking peoples' brains whe they walk in the door.

 

[WrightAvia]

l see. The airline model for improving the perception of good service is to simply point out to the customer, that he/she is wrong in expecting a flight to be properly manned for a scheduled departure?

Some states are posting better than 8 percent unemployment. Lots of businesses are not traveling as much as they did before the economy turned down. So between the loss of the vacation traveler and business traveler...the airlines have to fight for the remaining business with fare cuts, which in turn meant layoffs and wage concessions from the airline employees.

So two questions...(you guys brought up government regulation) how is government re-regulation of the airlines going to make people go back to work in the factory or the office that laid em off, so they can afford to go on vacation?

And how is the re-regulation of the airlines going to get the businessmen back to work selling things and designing things for the manufacturing sector, so there is a need for business flying again?

You guys miss the point. Airline travel ain't about YOU. It's about the CUSTOMER. Your wage negotiations, scheduling problems and all the other crap you sit up front and think about, is not on the customers minds. It never will be and never should be.

 

[Typhoon1244]

l see. The airline model for improving the perception of good service is to simply point out to the customer, that he/she is wrong in expecting a flight to be properly manned for a scheduled departure?

No, we're already doing that.

For starters, hiring people with some sort of work ethic, and then paying them what they're worth would help. I'm not talking about pilots, either. I'm talking about flight attendants, rampers, baggage handlers, lav service troops, gate agents, etc. You can't take a kid out of the projects, pay him/her seven ninety an hour, stick them at a gate with a 60% staffing level, and expect them to delight every customer.

We don't need to improve the perception of service. We need to improve the service!

I know it ain't about me, but when a guy who belongs on Greyhound (if not for the low-fare days of deregulation) whines about paying for drinks, it doesn't impress me.

 

[surfnole]

AAFlyer - chill. I thought the article was funny, and it appears to have generated a bit of discussion.

To answer your questions:

I guess the real question from the first post is does Jetblue, Aitran, SWA charge for liquor in coach? I thought they did so what is the point?

My last international flight on a domestic carrier was October 2001. Drinks used to be free on international flights, and I believe they still are on foreign carriers. I paid $450 for a flight from Orlando to Mexico City. This was a group fare by the way, so thats the rock bottom rate.

My point is the removal of free drinks on international flights is a deterioration of customer service. Four bucks for a bud light (which used to be free) after I shelled out $450 to travel 1300 miles.

Did the plane depart and arrive on time?

Yes

Was the plane clean?

Yes

Were you treated well by the FAs and gate agents?

Yes. Though I've had my incidents with snotty FAs too.

Are you accumalting miles on the AA loyalty program?

No, I didn't fly American because they were even more expensive. That caused me to take the long route to Mexico through Atlanta (Delta).

On an unrelated note: Unfortunately for the consumer, American has a death grip on the Caribbean and Mexico markets. I don't understand how I can fly to Hawaii for about the same price I can fly to the Caribbean.

Or are you pi$$ed you had to buy a beer, and you are going to let everyone know because of that AA is horrible airline.

Like I said I didn't fly American. I don't have anything in particular against them. I thought the article accurately describes the experience that all airline customers have at one time or another. I don't think any of the majors are horrible airlines. Its the whole flying experience which sux, and it starts on the expressway entrance to the airport. Hurry up and wait....

Even the pilots on this board have been ragging on the homely, surly FA.

I believe Greyhound goes down to Mexico city since JB and SWA do not. It is about a 24 hour drive, and you still have to pay for your beer.

Hey, my wife and I are trying to book a flight to Italy this October and they still very expensive, and the fares are going up! Right now the cheapest from Orlando is $950. If I want free drinks, should I fly Italia?

 

[SDdriver]

Surfnhole,

You can book a flight with us, we'll take you to italy, you can have all the free drinks you want, catered meals for free, your own personal FA, and absoulute FIRST class service!!, only problem is it will cost a lot more than $950.

On a lighter note,

I am sure Typhoon, that you do your best to get every customer back to your airline, and I know your feeling about hating those morons that you talked about. That is why I don't want to fly for the airlines, to many morons can afford it and I don't want to deal with them. There is a huge difference between the type of moron you fly and a moron we fly that is paying us 35,000 for a flight in his own charterd jet. I will deal with his crap all day long, since he is paying us quite well to deal with it.

I didn't mean to sound like I don't understand, I do, that is why I choose not to fly for an airline. I would rather cater to the higher class that can pay lots of money for our service, they can be unbelieveable idiots also and they do ask why can't you take off I am paying for this flight so lets go. It is just a lot easier to deal with cause we do get paid so well for it.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you didn't have good customer service skills or that you don't care, but just a question, do you think that public other than pilots come on this board to see what pilots are talking about?

Hope things get better for all of you!

SD

 

[Typhoon1244]

...do you think that public other than pilots come on this board to see what pilots are talking about?

Most of the non-pilots on this board are smarter than your average passenger...if for no other reason than the fact that they read this board!

...I know your feeling about hating those morons that you talked about. That is why I don't want to fly for the airlines, to many morons can afford it and I don't want to deal with them.

Back before 9/11, I was talking to a second-year UPS F/O about his $80/hour paycheck. I told my wife that night that perhaps I should consider applying there. She replied, "you won't have the same job-satisfaction you get out of flying people."

I said, "for eighty dollars an hour...I'll adapt."

(More money, and no morons in back. Hmm...)

 

[SDdriver]

I second you Thyphoon, boxes don't complain that is for sure. And there is a nice dollar amount that can be made that will make all of their unsless BS copable, that is the qualtiy in life I have found.

Good Luck Typhoon, I hope all gets better!! I really do!!

SD

 

[WrightAvia]

Yea, flying boxes has it's bright side. I flew pax's in 135 before. Most of them were o.k. some even tipped. But none of the boxes ever complains when they gotta be taken back off the plane and be trucked out when it's too crappy to fly.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I read some more of this Fred guy's articles, prepared to show all of you what a jackass he is.

But some of the articles made sense. I found myself agreeing with him a couple of times.

Then I read his opinion of Star Trek.

I was right the first time: he's a jackass. But, if you value the opinions of closed-minded rednecks, enjoy.

 

[Cardinal]

When I become king. . . my flight attendants will work like slaves. Inflight service has always struck me as being one of the poorest targets for cost-cutting through service reduction. Think about it - you have to carry one wench for every fifty passengers as per FEDERAL LAW. You have to pay these people to sit by their door and make sure it's armed. Whether they sit on their arse and talk about makeup for 6 hours or whether they spend every possible minute dilligently serving the customer is entirely up to the airline.

Did these mid-level VPs expend so much brain power obtaining their MBA's that they forgot that FA labor on a flight by flight basis is a fixed, and not variable cost. All you have to buy is the food, and food is comparatively cheap. The same asset utilization strategy that has jetBlue flying their Airbii in the middle of the night should prompt anybody with a clue to use the FA's to provide service, since they happen to be on the airplane anway!

This is the equivalent of Olive Garden paying a full waitstaff to sit in the kitchen and gaze into space, while making the customers get up and retrieve each course of their meal. A splendid strategy. If I were in charge I would flog my flight attendants so hard with customer service busywork that they might actually retire at 30. Then I'd hire new ones. A win-win situation.

 

[AAflyer]

Surfnhole, did not mean to sound defensive. Cutting corners everywhere is needed. Sorry you have to pay for a beer. Hopefully when things turn it will be gratis again.

Cardinal,

Not sure where you figure food is cheap. The average meal at AA is around $6.50. Take that amount andwith our fleet types and seats say the average plane will be catered for 135, and then multiply that by 1200 daily departures. I am splitting these departures in half as many do not have meals on short durations.

This amount comes adds up to a little over a million a day. In all honesty I have harldy ever heard anything positive from passengers about food.

Which leads me into a question for all of you. What do you think of buying food on the airplane ie Song and AWA? I tried a sandwich on Song and it was very good.

AA

 

[A Squared]

But, if you value the opinions of closed-minded rednecks, enjoy.

Fred may be many things, not all of them good, but, he's not closed minded and he's certainly not a red-neck. As a point of fact, he's far more educated and much better read than most, and he's seen and experienced a much larger portion of the world than most of us ever will. You may not agree with some of his opinions (and I certainly don't argree with all of them), but they're not uninformed.

 

[surfnole]

I subscribe to Fred's weekly column. Its usually pretty good. He says the things that everyone thinks or talks about with only their closest friends for fear of being labeled politically incorrect.