America West Pilots Vote down 2nd TA

[Wiskey Driver]

Unfortunately this may be true. It will still be a concessionary We need to stop comparing ourselves to airlines that are struggling. Our management and our MEC are doing a fine job of that without our help.

You are so right GD. we should stop comparing ourselves to other carriers. AWA is 20yrs old trying swim in shark infested waters. They have done pretty well considering. I think that the expectations are going to be way too high for such a young carrier. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

WD.

 

[SKLJ]

New Hire Classes on hold

Heard the Feb and March classes that had been scheduled are now on hold until something passes.

 

[racerX]

I just hope we can reach Industry Standard Pay before Industry Standard Pay reaches us!

 

[Guppiedriver]

You are so right GD. we should stop comparing ourselves to other carriers. AWA is 20yrs old trying swim in shark infested waters. They have done pretty well considering. I think that the expectations are going to be way too high for such a young carrier. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

WD.

I'm not sure, but are you saying we are too young to expect a decent contract? If that's the case what is Jet Blue doing paying their pilots more than AWA's? How dare them. Don't they know that we have been around longer than them. How long has Value Jet, I mean Air Tran been around? How about Spirit? They must be older than AWA, because they pay better.

How old does this airline have to be to pay a fair wage to it's labor? Are you satisfied being compensated 50% less than a pilot at Southwest? You fly about the same amount of hours per month as a Sothwest pilot, in similar equipment, with about 5 less days off per month. AWA's RASM vs. CASM is about 10% less than Southwest's. That's a 10% disadvantage not 50%.

Last year in one of his town hall meetings, Doug Parker said that he would make the pilots at AWA the second highest compensated amongst the discount carriers. Well last time I checked, our failed TA put us firmly in last place not second.

Your comments about pilots pigeon holeing a company for $300 p/hr, furloughs and concessions at the big five all smack of fear. We need to stand up and demand to be compensated fairly. We're not talking anywhere near $300 p/hr. Do you really think if we were paid somewhere between SWA and ATA that we would go out of business?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

GD,

Nope you missed my point entirely!!!! I fear nothing of the kind when it comes to contracts and air carriers, just ask those from my last airline how loud I was over an unnecessary TA that that has them locked into an 8 year deal!!! My point was this, they were offering us a pay raise of 11% plus 3% that this ta would expire prior to us ever getting. The 11% pay increase was nothing but giving the fact that the deal was for three years with a clause for us to be back at the table in 2 1/2 yrs may have made the process much easier!! I hope that you don't think that living under contract 95 another year or more is a better deal and if you think that Parker is going to rush back to the tables you are sadly mistaken, it could be as much as a year before the mediation board does a thing.

But like I said, we'll just have to wait and see.

WD.

 

[SkySpray]

WD,
Maybe people "missed your point entirely" because you never seem to have one, or at least a coherent one.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Skyspay, are you currently on the property at AWAC?? If you are not then you are not where near this conversation!!! If you are then you must be one of the many now wishing you had listened. My point then and now was that being rushed into makeing a decision like that one and being told by our own union members that a no vote meant being UNEMPLOYED within a year was horse $hit plain and simple, and then being told that an offer had to be in to UAL by weeks end that didn't get to them for some sixty days later!!! Skyspay, don't get me started on the bull$hit again...

BTW I get calls and e-mail from many of the pilots that I had words with on our message board now asking for my help in getting out because moral is so bad. 8YEARS think and say that out loud to yourself until it sinks in!!!!!

WD.

 

[SkySpray]

WD, you're such a martyr. See you around PHX.

 

[Guppiedriver]

GD,

Nope you missed my point entirely!!!! I fear nothing of the kind when it comes to contracts and air carriers, just ask those from my last airline how loud I was over an unnecessary TA that that has them locked into an 8 year deal!!! My point was this, they were offering us a pay raise of 11% plus 3% that this ta would expire prior to us ever getting. The 11% pay increase was nothing but giving the fact that the deal was for three years with a clause for us to be back at the table in 2 1/2 yrs may have made the process much easier!! I hope that you don't think that living under contract 95 another year or more is a better deal and if you think that Parker is going to rush back to the tables you are sadly mistaken, it could be as much as a year before the mediation board does a thing.

But like I said, we'll just have to wait and see.

WD.

Yes, living under C95 would be better. You obviously have not read POSTA II. The give aways in POSTA II far out weigh the negatives of living with C95 for any length of time. Back to the table in 2 1/2 years to get what? AWA will still be confined by the so-called ATSB limitations. If we ratify this POS we will get nothing now and in three years we will get more of nothing. However, all of the stuff that we gave up; scope, LTD, insurance premiums...etc., we will never be able to recover.

Yeah I'm sadly mistaken alright! It seems Parker and our back stabbing MEC are crafting a remake of POSTA II as we speak. Apparently it has 7 million more value than POSTA II and rumored to be out for re-vote on Monday. How could that be? We were told that they had given us everything allowable within the ATSB limitations in POSTA II.

One thing that I'm not sadly mistaken about is your fear of the unknown. It motivates you to vote "yes" and if enough of our pilot group does the same, it will continue to keep us at the bottom of the industry for a long time to come.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

No I did not see the TA. So I can't even answer intelligently. I was merely going off of the view points that I could pick up here and there. Some of what I heard was positive and others no so positive. I will say this, I am never in a rush to vote on anything that could or will adversly effect my career.

WD.