America West Pilots Vote down 2nd TA

[B1900DFO]

fly-n-high

Good post! There seems to be so few with your attitude these days.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Fly n high,

Oh I made that comparison some months ago with regards to Dr.s and pilots. I too feel that we are under paid for all of the risk we take and not so much for the sake of being in the air. Dr's are not placed in a situation every 6mos to prove themselves virtually putting our jobs on the line for the check ride that any of us can fail at anytime!!! Sure the economy drives the airlines but as long as there are Lorenzo's and Oreinsteins in the mix willing to destroy a company for not doing their bidding we are all doomed. There is no shortage of flight instructors out there willing to work for a few pennies an hour to sit in front of an RJ and proclaim that they are "real airline pilots". Not until their is a universal stand amongst us will we see the real fruits of our labor and as long as ALPA is involved with it plan on continuing to see what you currently see!!!!

WD.

 

[FLB717]

I hope AWA gets a great contract. they have been flogged by thier company for to many years, they deserve this. stand tall gents.

What are soem of the TA numbers anyone know?

 

[becket]

I spoke with a AWA friend the other day and he said he felt that the contract proposal was designed to split the pilot group. He thought it hooked up the senior guys at the expense of the junior. With a vote like this I'd have to say he's right.

A fractured pilot group only helps out mangement. I'm disappointed so many voted yes. To hear them talk, I expected 85% to vote no.

 

[habubuaza]

Wow, that's close. Heck, if U.S. Presidential election rules were applicable the contract would've passed!

Real cute.

 

[Fly-n-high]

Nandu,

Again someone here (you) dosen't study economics very well. Back in the early nineties we faced a similar economic situation. I was refering to the late nineties when Delta and Airways were hiring like crazy. I guess you couldn't figure that out.

Wiskey Driver,

Your right about the CFI's and the regional guys who initially say that they would fly for the majors for half the money. Except the truth is once the get to the majors they are usually the ones that want more money and better schedules.

The majority of FO's, not CA's, at AWA voted down the contract. Many of those FO's came from regionals and were former CFI's.

Now I don't know if any of the FO's said that they would be "willing to work for pennies" but they certainly did not reflect that attitude in the way they voted. (Good for AWA FO's)

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Fly n high,

Oh I know all too well the mix of the vote here. I am part of the AWA family as a f/o here and spoke to many of my brethren and found that many of the Capt's were in favor of it and most F/O's were not!! In any case it was so close that I really feel that just a few adjustments should do the trick.

WD.

 

[Fly-n-high]

Cool...I'm at AWA as well. These next few months should be interesting.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Cool...I'm at AWA as well. These next few months should be interesting.

To say the least!!! See ya PHX.

WD.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Fly n high,

Oh I know all too well the mix of the vote here. I am part of the AWA family as a f/o here and spoke to many of my brethren and found that many of the Capt's were in favor of it and most F/O's were not!! In any case it was so close that I really feel that just a few adjustments should do the trick.
WD.

Unfortunately this may be true. It will still be a concessionary deal even with a "few adjustments" and it certainly will not "do the trick" for me.

I would have to agree with you GD, but I really don't know what "industry standard" is anymore!!! AA pay cut, UAL paycut massive furloughs across the industry. If anyone knows please tell just what the h ell is industry standard!!!! I truely feel that the days of pigeon holeing a company into $300/hr are long gone.

WD.

No offense, but I couldn't care less what UAL, DAL, AA....makes. However, they still make more and have better work rules than us after they made concessions. They are still bleeding red ink and we are not. We need to stop comparing ourselves to airlines that are struggling. Our management and our MEC are doing a fine job of that without our help.


When we started negotiations in 2000, management told us not to compare ourselves to the big 5. Later on in negotiations prior to 9/11 management said that we should be looking at ALK, SWA, ATA....etc for salary comparisons. Just a couple of months ago they told us we could compare ourselves to any airline that was formed after deregulation that was based in PHX. Any reasonable person would conclude that comparing AWA with SWA, ALK, ATA, Airtran, Jet Blue...etc would be fair. It's unlikely that pilot salaries that are the average of the above airlines would put AWA out of business.