Am I a dummy?

[Goose Egg]

The CFI hasn't worked much on his craft. If he had, he'd know that a turning slip has been used for decades as a technique to lose altitude during the turn from base to final... PS If you want a good laugh, have your friend make his explanation in front of a Pitts, Stearman or Waco owner.

Dang, LJD beat me to it. Agree 100%.

Are you one of those folks who thinks the spoilers should never be used in the descent as that constitutes poor planning? Are you saying you'd rather your student plan his engine outs so precisely that they have no margin for error?

Everyone freaks out about not having the ability to go around in a glider, but it's really not that big of a deal. Without divebrakes, a glider can, uh, well, glide a lot better than a typical training airplane. But with divebrakes, the glider can descend a lot more quickly without gaining airspeed. Net result? You can get a glider into anything, easily. (Although ironically, a slip in a lot of gliders really isn't that effective.)

Use everything you've got.

-Goose

 

[DrewBlows]

Are you one of those folks who thinks the spoilers should never be used in the descent as that constitutes poor planning?

Quite the contrary, in a piston airplane with spoilers (speed brakes) I encouraged their use in the descent in order to keep the engine warm. I don't have them in airplane that I fly now (sometimes wish I did), but I don't have a problem using equipment that is installed in an airplane for what it was designed for.

Are you saying you'd rather your student plan his engine outs so precisely that they have no margin for error? I'd much rather have some extra energy and altitude while trying to reach the field.

Don't look too much into my previous post. I have seen a lot of really poor technique in the training enviroment (it's expected, it's training). I was commenting on that fact only, not making a broad generization on how I think an airplane should be flown. If I saw a student who had poor technique and had to rely on a forward slip in order to make a landing site, I would mention it to the stuent and their instructor. On the other hand, it's good to see a student do a forward slip, it shows they are thinking, but while it's appropriate in some situations, it's not appropriate in all situations.

Not trying to bust your chops, but I think you're wrong.

Relax, the very first thing I said in my previous post was that the forward slip is in your repitouir so use it.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Hey Drew what/where do you fly now?

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Thanks, guys and gals for all the input. I also called a few CFI buddies of mine and they confirmed what all of you have said. I'm certain this CFI was concerned about the cross controlled stall situation, something every CFI should show their students at altitude.

Thanks again,

MM

 

[avbug]

Chances are that this instructor was never taught properly. He or she is probably also afraid of cross controlled stalls. I'll bet that if you query further, you'll learn that he was never taught them, and doesn't teach them. It's a mystery area for him.

A bigger concern with slipping is the excessive load on the vertical stabilizer and in some cases, unporting fuel or pluggin fuel vents.

Like many others here, I learned to fly in a J-3 cub, which had no flaps, and slipping was a way of life. Over the years, however, I've seen a lot of cracks in vertical stabilizer attach points and brackets...all attributable to slipping in the aircraft. I've seen this in aircrafr ranging from small single engine airplanes to lare four engine airplanes (we used to use a lot of slipping in the heavy tankers to get them into the spaces where we made our drops.

For the most part now, I avoid slips because I've seen too much structural damage caused by them. If most pilots had seen the same thing, they'd avoid them too. I'm not talking about slips at Vne, but routine slips below maneuvering speeds. If most pilots had any idea how little is really holding that tail end together, they'd be a lot more careful what they do with the airplane.

 

[wrxpilot]

The CFI hasn't worked much on his craft. If he had, he'd know that a turning slip has been used for decades as a technique to lose altitude during the turn from base to final. I've done it hundreds of times in a variety of GA airplanes and I'm still here.

This CFI has confused inside rudder, (A bad thing) with a perfectly acceptable maneuver that if memory serves me correctly, is in the Flight Training Handbook.
Ask this guy how a turning slip increases the likelihood of a stall spin accident. He won't be able to, he's just parroting something he thinks he heard somebody tell him once.

PS If you want a good laugh, have your friend make his explanation in front of a Pitts, Stearman or Waco owner.

The difference being that the "inside rudder" turn is used to (mistakenly) quicken a turn while up elevator is incorrectly used to correct for the pitch down effect right? Basically the two are the same except one has nose down (the slip) and the other (bad, evil, death) inside turn is nose up?

 

[wrxpilot]

Like many others here, I learned to fly in a J-3 cub, which had no flaps, and slipping was a way of life. Over the years, however, I've seen a lot of cracks in vertical stabilizer attach points and brackets...all attributable to slipping in the aircraft. I've seen this in aircrafr ranging from small single engine airplanes to lare four engine airplanes (we used to use a lot of slipping in the heavy tankers to get them into the spaces where we made our drops.

That's an uncomforting thought... Whatever happened to the cracking on the 152s? I think it was on the vert stabilizer or something wasn't it?

 

[avbug]

It was the attach brackets.

Inside or outside rudder doesn't make much difference, so long as you fly the airplane. Using rudder to get around quicker doesn't speed up the turn...bank steeper if that's the goal.

An old wives tale among pilots suggests that outside rudder is good, inside bad, but that's ridiculous. Slipping good, skidding bad, along those lines. Not so. One may be a little more comfortable for the user, but the issue is aircraft control.

If you're going to stall and lose control in the turn does it really matter if you depart controlled flight over the top of of the turn or to the inside of the turn? No, not really...neither does it matter if you're carrying inside or outside rudder. Fly the airplane and don't let departure occur, and you won't see any particular difference.

Where you do see a difference is that your turning controls are the ailerons, not the rudder. Banking into the turn and using outside rudder makes more sense...if you're going to slip, slip to the inside of the turn, which is accomplishing the goal. If you're skidding, you're fighting yourself...you're trying to turn left but skidding right...sort of a turn inefficiency, if you will. As far as control, however, and safety, neither one is more dangerous than the other. So long as you remain the one controlling the airplane, and don't let it control you.

 

[Cutlass1287]

Since I only fly a C-172, I almost always fly the VASI white over white, since most of the fields I fly into are long enough for jet aircraft. I've had way to many engine issues to not leave myself enough altitude to get down safely. A lot of CFIs I fly with don't like me flying this way, they prefer the comfortable red over white. However, in a small airplane like this there is PLENTY of room to fly the approach a little high, and then get down, at most of the fields I fly into.