Aluminum Overcast bellied in at Van Nuys

[VNugget]

Gear collapsed on rollout, video here

 

[typhoonpilot]

Glad everyone is okay. I hate seeing that happen to such a nicely restored aircraft. Looks like they can get it up and flying again without too much difficulty.


Typhoonpilot

 

[SpeedBird]

Earlier in the day that B-17 had been flying out at Edwards AFB doing pattern work with Air Force TPS students flying the aircraft. I was holding short to takeoff and got to watch it fly a couple of approaches. At the same time there was a B-2 in the pattern (along with a F/A-22) flying behind it on final. Needless to say it was something you don't get to see everyday in this business. A real tragedy to lose such a nice vintage aircraft that way.

 

[FSB99]

i'm curious, did they know or have any idea the gear wasn't locked, or anything? or did they just happen to be filming the landing, and suddenly.. splash!

 

[SteveR]

Glad everyone is okay. I hate seeing that happen to such a nicely restored aircraft. Looks like they can get it up and flying again without too much difficulty.

I would be surprised if it ever flies again. Today it isn't cheap to maintain a B-17, much less repair one with substantial damage. You never know what something like this could cost. It will put that plane out of commission for years, if not permanently. 4 new three-blade constant speed props, maybe overhauled engines, at least torn down, new gear, maybe massive damage to the spar and trusses in the wings, cowl flaps are ruined, massive damage to the underside of the plane, definitely serious damage to structural components in the fuselage...and you can't just call up Boeing anymore and get parts. They have to be fabricated at extraordinary cost. They might be able to scavenge original parts from a plane that is on static display, that is probably their only hope to get it up again. One thing is sure though, it will be years before it flies again, if ever. The EAA just doesn't have millions of dollars to spend repairing a plane like that. The teardown on Engine #3 of our B-17 cost over $10k, and one of our guys did all the work. The superchargers on B-17s are on the underside of the engine, just behind the gear. Aluminum Overcast's superchargers are almost definitely toast, and where do you get superchargers for a B-17, much less four of them? Man, this nearly makes me sick. Honestly, I would say the odds are better that it just became a static display. Wish it wasn't that way, but I think it is.

When I'm crawling around in the cockpit of Chuckie (the B-17 at the Vintage Flying Museum where I volunteer), the thing I'm most afraid of is the gear lever. There is a safety that should keep the gear from activating when the plane is on the ground, but I have no desire to test it! I tend to crawl around the gear lever as if it is a rattlesnake. Stay far away, and never take an eye off of it.

The only way I ever see it getting airborne again is if the EAA gathers significant donations at OshKosh. With nearly one million people there that week, if they could get just $3/person, they could likely pay for the repairs over the next couple of years. If something like that doesn't happen, they'll probably bang the dents out and Aluminum Overcast will spend its time hanging from the roof of some museum.

 

[AxisVDP]

I saw the remains of a (I have no idea but looked like) B-24 that made a gear-up landing in a hangar in Chattanooga so I can imagine the damage done to the B-17. I'm sure it will be a pain to restore.

 

[DenverDude2002]

Ok this is going to sound stupid but was that the EAA B17 in the video? How many B17s are left flying with this one out of commission?

 

[EagleRJ]

There are around nine flying B-17s today.

I wouldn't count it out yet. It was about as smooth a touchdown as can be hoped for. Hopefully that will limit the damage to the belly to just the surface skin. If any frames are bent, that will really up the cost. New props will be needed, and the engines should be OK after a teardown and rebuild (it looks like the mixtures may have been pulled just as they touched down. That should minimize any internal damage.).

I don't know if the superchargers are even hooked up any more. Most groups that run WWII aircraft run the engines at only 60-70% of their maximum WEP levels, to reduce wear and tear. The superchargers in the B-17 are probably either fixed in Low Blower or bypassed completely.

I'm sure it will fly again, but it won't be cheap!

 

[dav8or]

That plane will fly again. If they can rebuild fighters from just a data plate then you know if will be rebuilt.

 

[Frank Bama]

Way da go Verne.

 

[414Flyer]

I think I saw that plane flying yesterday. I was at the Santa Barbara tanker base, getting a load of retardant and fueling the plane, and saw a B-17 and B-24 fly over the field in formation at pattern altitude.

 

[captainv]

the plane can fly again, if they want it to. all it takes is time and money. and if there's one thing EAA has in abundance, it's vounteers willing to give their time.

Kermit Weeks had a B-17 in Homestead that got trashed by Hurrican Andrew. the winds picked it up and threw it 1/2 mile away. much more significant damage that Aluminum Overcast. it's taken half of forever, but Tom Reilly rebuilt it at his shop in Kissimmee....

 

[SteveR]

That plane will fly again. If they can rebuild fighters from just a data plate then you know if will be rebuilt.

Sure they CAN do it. You could build another 13,000 of them if you wanted, AND if you have the spare cash. It isn't as simple as cutting/machining a few ribs and spars. That thing has a LOT of damage, and there aren't spare parts B-17 scattered around the country like there are fighter parts. When they take a data plate and "rebuild" a fighter, they are really taking parts from a bunch of planes and putting them together. ALuminum Overcast will probably need enough parts fabricated to BUILD an entire P-51. Doable, but not easy, and far from cheap.

What they need to do is get Bill Gates interested. I swear, if I was Bill Gates, I would own half of the warbirds in existence.

 

[captainv]

When they take a data plate and "rebuild" a fighter, they are really taking parts from a bunch of planes and putting them together. ALuminum Overcast will probably need enough parts fabricated to BUILD an entire P-51. Doable, but not easy, and far from cheap.

i see your point, but we're not rebuilding a fighter from scratch here. this isn't a total rebuild. we're talking about engines, props mainly, plus some fairly minor damage from landing on its belly. this is a fully functional B-17 - shoot, they can probably fix the damage from the existing parts.

anybody been to Tom Reilly's museum at KISM? last time I went, he had a stack of twisted metal the size of a semi trailer. had a postcard of a P-38 sittting on it. the wreckage had been found on a tiny island off Alaska. they said it would take 2 years, $2.5 million to get her flying again. Amazing...

 

[FlightTraker]

Go to www.eaa.org and read on....if anyone has the resources to rebuild the aircraft, it is the EAA.



FlightTraker

 

[OtterFO]

The EAA does have the resources to rebuild the -17, Also the aircraft is insured. I dont know if they will be able to insure it after the rebuild though.


To answer the earlier question about the superchargers. As far as I know they are installed, but disabled.

 

[pilotyip]

Turbo chargers

I believe that there are only two B-17’s flying with original turbochargers. I fly one of those and it is the YAF’s Yankee Lady; the system works just like it did out of the factory. Set climb or cruise power and it maintains the Manifold Pressure setting as you change altitude or speed. It is like the first auto throttle.

 

[mudkow60]

Kinda' sadly ironic that the History Channel is having a show on the B-17 and its role in the European theater. Sometimes we (I) forget the men and machines that helped win the war, and it makes it even more sad when both are lost.

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

Until Monday morning at about 9:30 AM I had never seen a B-24 nor a B-17 fly. EVER!! I was on the 5 Freeway down near San Diego when I watched the B-24 fly over my head at about 1,000 feet. Right behind it, maybe a mile, was the B-17. I couldn't believe my eyes. Like I said, I'd never seen either of the types airborne, yet there they were. What a beautiful sight!

I was really stunned to see the video of the B-17 pop its gear up on the rollout. Sad.

I have no doubt that it will fly again.

 

[SteveR]

i see your point, but we're not rebuilding a fighter from scratch here. this isn't a total rebuild. we're talking about engines, props mainly, plus some fairly minor damage from landing on its belly. this is a fully functional B-17 - shoot, they can probably fix the damage from the existing parts.

I would say the most extensive damage is to the fuselage, and I doubt the damage is that minor. The fuselage and the wings absorbed nearly a 5' drop of 35,000+ lbs, there is going to be significant damage, and not just on the bottom of the plane. See those wings bounce? There is a good chance that cracked parts all through the wings...everything will have to be inspected. There is probably significant damage to the wings & their trusses, and they will have to tear the entire thing apart to ensure airworthiness. Fabricating all of those trusses, all of the ribs, etc., will take a huge amount of money.

Pictures of the B-17 I work on: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/B-17/

That is the bombay. Most likely, the entire structure in the bottom is demolished. Wing trusses are likely demolished also. Those parts will have to be fabricated or scavenged.

A lot of these structural members are probably toast:

The one thing that might save them a lot is that the tires stick out in the slip stream a little. That had to greatly lessen the blow to the structure. However, it also had to cause massive damage to the gear structure and everything around it when the plane fell. When the gear collapsed, all of those struts went somewhere they aren't supposed to be: