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ALPA's Scope Defense - Incompetence?

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If ALPA indeed is trying to clip the wings of the Regional carriers, the union has not succeeded, said Woerth. "We are the most incompetent negotiators in history.... every RJ that has been built has been flown immediately." This is not however, however, for lack of trying.

Source: Air Transport World - June 2002

ALPA's latest defense to RJDC claims are that the union's attempts to harm their members at Regional carriers have been incompetent. Simply amazing, the union does not deny the intentions of scope, just that they have failed and should not be held accountable for harm they intended to cause, but have been unable to achieve.

But we can fully expect ALPA to keep working away at destroying the lives of their members who are not employed at a mainline carrier.... In the meantime the furloughed members at Delta are the guys really paying the price.

When will mainline pilots demand one list?
 
~~~^~~~ said:
If ALPA indeed is trying to clip the wings of the Regional carriers, the union has not succeeded, said Woerth. "We are the most incompetent negotiators in history.... every RJ that has been built has been flown immediately." This is not however, however, for lack of trying.

prof,

This quote appears to be heavily tongue-in-cheek. I'd say an accurate paraphrase would be, "How can regional carriers think that we are misrepresenting them? If that were our goal, our success would be represented in canceled orders and regional furloughees. Since the opposite has occured, the accusations must be unfounded."

I'm not defending ALPA vs. regionals per se, but I don't think this comment is the smoking gun.

Who added the "lack of trying" comment? Was that you or the author?
 
Judging from some of the comments of some regional folks there is discontent with the representation ALPA gives them. However, don't hear a battle cry to give ALPA the ol' heave ho. Curious as to how deep the division really is. Obviously at CAL it was deep enough and at UPS several years ago.
 
SDF2BUF2MCO said:
Judging from some of the comments of some regional folks there is discontent with the representation ALPA gives them. However, don't hear a battle cry to give ALPA the ol' heave ho. Curious as to how deep the division really is. Obviously at CAL it was deep enough and at UPS several years ago.

No offense, but maybe you don't hear it because you're not working for an airline. If you were here, you would hear the resentment loud and clear.

Unfortunately, getting rid of ALPA is not a good solution because at least now they have a legal obligation to help us. If we broke away, nothing would stop them from actively underming the "regional" pilots.
 
IFF

Congratulations! I see that you're begining to get the message. Welcome aboard.
 
ifly4food said:


No offense, but maybe you don't hear it because you're not working for an airline. If you were here, you would hear the resentment loud and clear.

Unfortunately, getting rid of ALPA is not a good solution because at least now they have a legal obligation to help us. If we broke away, nothing would stop them from actively underming the "regional" pilots.

Exactly, leaving just isn't as lucrative. Incidentally, it's just unbelievable that whatever~~~^~~~ is can't read sarcasm. I notice that he doesn't post it on the ALPA board because he knows he would get smeared. It's going to be very hard to prove damages when the only ones hiring are Comair and ASA. Stifling career expectations?!? I have to laugh. :p
 
FlyDeltasJets said:
If you are not at a major but would like to be....ALPA is your friend.
I know 805 pilots who might beg to differ.... How have ALPA's scope policy protected the jobs of mainline pilots?

Only an idiot keeps trying the same procedure when the results are repeated failure. If Duane Woerth is being sarcastic and laughing at himself, what does it say about his leadership? For all of us the scope walls that separate our union is a tragedy, not a joke.

It is easy to quote furlough figures without realizing that each one of those folks is unemployed, probably scared and under enormous family pressures. I watched the toll repeated furloughs took on my father and do not wish this sort of anguish on anyone.

Is the pride of feeling that some Delta pilots are superior to Connection pilots worth the cost? How many junior Delta pilots are worth sacrificing to promote the highest pay rate on the planet? Nearly one in ten is on the street now and management's forecast is around 15% of the seniority list.

Now tell me, how does ALPA's policies promote those with major airline aspirations?
 
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Well, I'm one of the 805, so only 804 could differ with me!

ALPA's policies have failed, but not because we have been too tough on scope, as you allege, but because we have not been tough enough.

If we had held the line long ago, mgt would have been forced to put all of those growth airplanes at mainline, not commuters. That would have, and still could, help thousands of those still hoping to get a mainline job.

That being said, I believe ASA and CMR should be on our list (with a staple). However, we would still need to scope other, non- owned rj operators (more of the same "idiotic" strategy).
 

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