alpa's lack of centralized power

[Hanger 10]

Its our fault payrates and work rules are getting flushed. We allow our union to be a loose assembly of member groups. We should call for more centralized power, set work rules, and base pay rates for all AlPA carriers. Simply they can be competitive in other areas.

What do you think?

 

[D'Angelo]

Dr Phill can kiss me arse!!!

 

[Sig]

Its our fault payrates and work rules are getting flushed. We allow our union to be a loose assembly of member groups. We should call for more centralized power, set work rules, and base pay rates for all AlPA carriers. Simply they can be competitive in other areas.

What do you think?

We don't have any power other than the dollar almighty.

Re-evaluate the fractionalized whimper of a voice you have against that fact. I'm watching what NWA does with baited breath; talk about put up or shut up. Scabs have been a long time coming, and they'll have checked themselves into a position that might kill work that will be flown under a contract they have rubber stamped.

Extremely interesting if not friggin' sickening. The problem is the mindless fever towards signing away flying while supporting the "mainline" troops... all well and good, if you consider the fact that more money comes from better paid pilots.

We can whinge some more about contract carriers, but hey- they signed it. They carry the burden. I mean, if they had any kind of moral fiber, the twats.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Its our fault payrates and work rules are getting flushed. We allow our union to be a loose assembly of member groups. We should call for more centralized power, set work rules, and base pay rates for all AlPA carriers. Simply they can be competitive in other areas.

What do you think?

ALPA's centralized power lies in political influence.

The ALPA system is in part, due to the RLA. The loose collection of MECs work well during the growth periods. For example, when DAL was negotiating thier 2001 contract, all of us were salivating knowing the results were going to be greater than the UAL2000 industry leading contract....

You can't have it both ways. Base pay rates/work rules could work in recessionary times, but they will bite us when the growth returns. For example, if your carrier is doing really well, and your NC can get better pay rates/work rules than the national base rates, you will be pretty pissed off that you are being held back....

The best plan of action is to get fully informaed on how our system works. With LEC attendance at 5% and voter particpation at 35%, it doesn't seem that too many of us really understand what is going on....

 

[AviatorTx]

We should call for more centralized power, set work rules, and base pay rates for all AlPA carriers. Simply they can be competitive in other areas.

What do you think?

I would LOVE this if it were possible. It's not though unless ALL airline pilots were ALPA, or at least a single union.

The easy part would be for ALPA to set a minimum wage on specific equipment, then refuse to ratify any contract that did not hit the mark, (IE Mesa).

This will NOT work though because the other unions (Teamsters @ G0-Jet for example), as well as the non union carriers would have to agree to and sign on to the process. If every single airline pilot does not agree to this, it will fail. This is why it is impossible IMHO.

Too bad. I would love to see it become a reality.

 

[Sig]

ALPA's centralized power lies in political influence.

The ALPA system is in part, due to the RLA. The loose collection of MECs work well during the growth periods.

You hit the other nail on the head, Rez. They DO work well during growth periods, because it's a grab-all frenzy.

The problem is they've built a perfect scenario (unwittingly? dunno) for allowing absolute conflict of interests; identical rivals. With airlines on the brink of evaporating, and the flying still needing to be flown- what's going to happen if a group strikes and another ALPA carrier is granted the work? Strongly worded memos? A two page layout in the ALPA rag two months later?

What if a strike happens and anyone else takes up the flying? Gee, kids- you really ought not to do this... blahblah rhetoric BS and hypocrisy...

 

[Hanger 10]

D'Angelo, you are a peice of work.

Thanks for the insight. As long as we are a loose confederation of labor we will be taken advantage of for the "upgrade" or the almighty "PIC". I wonder were will we will go with "PIC". There won't be any mainline jobs left they'll be farmed out to Mesa or Colgan. Sooner or later the 737s and the A-320s and then the wide body aircraft will be part of Mesa's fleet. Adam Smith will prevail.

Historicly unions gain strenth in numbers and unity. It sounds like ALPA member are not ready for a big step. I guess you have to be in the midst of crisis to relate.

Good luck, except for you D'Angelo.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Historicly unions gain strenth in numbers and unity. It sounds like ALPA member are not ready for a big step. I guess you have to be in the midst of crisis to relate.

Strength in numbers, unity and education......

One of the weaknesses of ALPA is acutally the RLA. It is the country we live in. If we want to have a 24 hour shut down like the French... then we may have to move to France.

We live is a big business political world. The MAN, sees Air Line Pilots as blue collar labor, just like factory workers.... That isn't ALPA's fault. It is a trait of America.

 

[XJohXJ]

Divide and conquer always wins. Management (and Republicans) are very good at this. They also don't care at all about what is right or fair. They don't even really care about money. They only care about victory.

Labor (and Democrats) are easily divided.

Next head on the chopping block: Mesaba.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Divide and conquer always wins. Management (and Republicans) are very good at this. They also don't care at all about what is right or fair. They don't even really care about money. They only care about victory.

Labor (and Democrats) are easily divided.

Next head on the chopping block: Mesaba.

Good points... problem is most pilots don't even realize this...

 

[Airway]

Strength in numbers, unity and education......

One of the weaknesses of ALPA is acutally the RLA. It is the country we live in. If we want to have a 24 hour shut down like the French... then we may have to move to France.

We live is a big business political world. The MAN, sees Air Line Pilots as blue collar labor, just like factory workers.... That isn't ALPA's fault. It is a trait of America.

Or ALPA is too busy paying Woerth 500K a year with his "brothers'" salaries while regional management has the balls to consider paycuts. ALPA is no "union." You want a Union and Unity? Ask the Longshoremen. At least they get sh*t done. (see Longshoremen strike of 2002..and other preceding years). They don't still make good wages for their work because they let ALPA represent them. If this were the case, they'd be making $9.70 an hour with dental, and in two years, they'd take 20%.