ALPA Welcomes CommutAir Pilots!!!

[WalterSobchak]

A chorus of dispatchers ragging on ALPA, how original.

Nothing better to do? I don't make it a habit of trolling Flight Attendant boards mocking their representation nor the lack thereof. It just doesn't affect my world enough to really care.

There really seems to be a need of some serious reading comprehension testing with some of you guys.

First, DX Rick is a pilot...

Secondly, where did I mock? I ragged on ALPA's tactics and the chest thumpers who talk down to those who choose not to organize....yet you missed the part where I congratulated CommutAir on moving forward with the wishes of an overwhelming majority and choosing to organize.

I'm as even-handed as they come...I just grow tired of the general stupidity that gets spewed around here.

 

[NEDude]

From a member of the 2003 ALPA organizing committee at CommutAir, congrats. It was five years late in coming, but better late than never.

Best of luck in negotiations. No matter which union represents you, being covered by a CBA is far better than being without.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Representation and self-governing are not the same thing, FWIW. But I get the intent of the wanting to pariticpate in the process somehow...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Representation and self-governing are not the same thing, FWIW. But I get the intent of the wanting to pariticpate in the process somehow...

Explain....

 

[spitfire1500]

Yeah, the retards are leaving and the intelligent are joining.

Kind of like all the retards at Skywest and Colgan that voted.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Um....the self-governance construct suggests the ability to directly make change in one's environment without the need for external approval; it is entirely an internal locus of control. Representation is the ability to influence the decision-makers but cannot exact change alone; it implicitly admits external locus of control. If MECs could make change on their own, they would not need ALPA not would they have to confer with management to seek changes to whatever ails them. I think union membership is more akin to a representative democracy...have a say, but the outcome is dependent on those who you vote on, and those who you do not (checks/balances).

 

[SaturnPilot]

Um....the self-governance construct suggests the ability to directly make change in one's environment without the need for external approval; it is entirely an internal locus of control. Representation is the ability to influence the decision-makers but cannot exact change alone; it implicitly admits external locus of control. If MECs could make change on their own, they would not need ALPA not would they have to confer with management to seek changes to whatever ails them.

just wanted to clarify from my experience with ALPA...although ALPA technically does have the right, via the president's "signature", to exact control over the MECs, that is hardly ever done. The individual MECs in ALPA really do operate within a self governance environment in which ALPA national is a resource, rather than a body that exerts control.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Local MECs cannot change anything at-will, in fact I'd be willing to bet they can change little of their own accord, without either involving national or airline management. The 'hardly ever done' note is interesting for it's the same rationale SkyWesters use for remaining union-free but that comes under fire for "what can be" and "what is" arguments. The original post said something along the lines of welcome to self-governance...I simply do not think that is the case; perhaps self-empowered to recommend change I'd buy. Also, I thought there were external rules--a national Constitution--that goverened actions of both MECs and members; any amount of external control limits self-governement. I'm just squawking over the use of the term--it's misleading if not incorrect. It is representation and quasi-governance, but from what little I know/infer, not self-governing.

 

[Metro752]

DX Rick is a dispatcher! Don't let him fool you!

 

[DX Rick]

DX Rick is a dispatcher! Don't let him fool you!

Nothing get's by you, does it? Oxygen Thief.

Dispatch ticket never expires.

 

[Metro752]

Whatever Rick

 

[Nevets]

The 'hardly ever done' note is interesting for it's the same rationale SkyWesters use for remaining union-free but that comes under fire for "what can be" and "what is" arguments. The original post said something along the lines of welcome to self-governance...I simply do not think that is the case; perhaps self-empowered to recommend change I'd buy. Also, I thought there were external rules--a national Constitution--that goverened actions of both MECs and members; any amount of external control limits self-governement.

The difference on the 'hardly ever done' argument is that ALPA members have a recourse, Skw pilots don't. The ALPA president can always be recalled at any moment. Also, at least the ALPA pilots are "self-empowered to recommend change." That cannot be said of all pilots. And the last thing, all rules can be changed by ALPA pilots, including the constitution and by-laws, administrative manual, and MEC policy manuals.

 

[Nevets]

Dispatch ticket never expires.

Neither does a pilot's. Whats your point?

 

[DX Rick]

Neither does a pilot's. Whats your point?

What I ment is that we don't have to take a recurrent or anything like that. Once we've passed the practical, that's the last exam we have to take.
Seeing that haven't had a job as a 121 dispatcher in 3 years, I could go right back doing it without having to test.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Local MECs cannot change anything at-will, in fact I'd be willing to bet they can change little of their own accord, without either involving national or airline management. The 'hardly ever done' note is interesting for it's the same rationale SkyWesters use for remaining union-free but that comes under fire for "what can be" and "what is" arguments. The original post said something along the lines of welcome to self-governance...I simply do not think that is the case; perhaps self-empowered to recommend change I'd buy. Also, I thought there were external rules--a national Constitution--that goverened actions of both MECs and members; any amount of external control limits self-governement. I'm just squawking over the use of the term--it's misleading if not incorrect. It is representation and quasi-governance, but from what little I know/infer, not self-governing.

I agree that MECs frequently have to involve airline management to invoke change, but every MEC is very independent from ALPA National. They only time ALPA National would ever involve themselves in a local matter is if you were seriously acting to the detriment of the profession (ie "we'll fly the 757 for $16/hour for captains).

I see what you're saying about the use of the term though.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Um....the self-governance construct suggests the ability to directly make change in one's environment without the need for external approval; it is entirely an internal locus of control. Representation is the ability to influence the decision-makers but cannot exact change alone; it implicitly admits external locus of control. If MECs could make change on their own, they would not need ALPA not would they have to confer with management to seek changes to whatever ails them. I think union membership is more akin to a representative democracy...have a say, but the outcome is dependent on those who you vote on, and those who you do not (checks/balances).

Sounds like our gov't

 

[trainer8]

I'm not insulting those who aren't members. I'm insulting USCABA supporters specifically.

Just following the ALPA Code of Ethics, as usual.

 

[SERPICO]

Yeah, the retards are leaving and the intelligent are joining.

I would not be suprised if that little speech took you all day to put together. Charming!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Um....the self-governance construct suggests the ability to directly make change in one's environment without the need for external approval; it is entirely an internal locus of control. Representation is the ability to influence the decision-makers but cannot exact change alone; it implicitly admits external locus of control. If MECs could make change on their own, they would not need ALPA not would they have to confer with management to seek changes to whatever ails them. I think union membership is more akin to a representative democracy...have a say, but the outcome is dependent on those who you vote on, and those who you do not (checks/balances).

and I replied...

sounds like our gov't

And that is the point.... We love our freedom. Our American Democracy. We love to tell ourselves that we are the best country in the world.. that we self govern ourselves. we don't have dictators or communist rule. Our 230+ year experiment in democracy is going quite well....



However, in actuality.... our practice is much different than our ideals. We love the rewards but don't really care for the responsibility...



The Skywest pilots have had opportunity to be good Americans. To vote for self government. To have checks and balances... But they shunned their rights to function more like citizens of a communist state... right-less.


You know what rights are, what self government is, what responsibility is, what freedom is... but yet you choose the Burqa.....



Congrats to the Commutair pilots... that is about as American as it gets.....

 

[Sky Jet]

Holy Crap Batman. Either hell just froze over or PLB just thawed out. I honestly never thought I would live to see the day that CommutAir went union. Everytime I ever brought it up it went like a fart in chuch. I can not think of a managment that deserved it more.

Jet (CommutAir 1991-1998)