ALPA Wake up! DOH NOW

[MCDU]

Looking at the huge screw job Midwest Pilots and Frontier pilots are about to get, ALPA needs no address the greed certain pilot groups have, in not embrassing DOH. Pilots are shortsighted and DOH is the closest you can get to a National seniority list.

This relative seniority crap and taking a snapshot of a pilot list and then placing longtime former airline captains behind new hires needs to stop.

Like when ALPA endorsed RJ flying, they made the same mistake by abandoning DOH. ALPA is a spineless operation, that only is interested in the dues you pay.

Pilots wake up! DOH is fair. The problem is that pilot greed trumps and the shortsightedness of this young pilot generation is a huge problem that needs to be corrected.

DOH NOW with C and R.

M

 

[overseas boy]

McDU,
You should "embrass" the union and try to change this arcane policy from within. Have you tried that?

 

[Sandhawk]

MCD-bag, does your boyfriend "embrass" you after he drills you in the tar star?

:laugh:

 

[Jar Jar]

McDU,
You should "embrass" the union by trying to change this arcane policy from within. Have you tried that?

Fixed.

 

[General Lee]

Looking at the huge screw job Midwest Pilots and Frontier pilots are about to get, ALPA needs no address the greed certain pilot groups have, in not embrassing DOH. Pilots are shortsighted and DOH is the closest you can get to a National seniority list.

This relative seniority crap and taking a snapshot of a pilot list and then placing longtime former airline captains behind new hires needs to stop.

Like when ALPA endorsed RJ flying, they made the same mistake by abandoning DOH. ALPA is a spineless operation, that only is interested in the dues you pay.

Pilots wake up! DOH is fair. The problem is that pilot greed trumps and the shortsightedness of this young pilot generation is a huge problem that needs to be corrected.

DOH NOW with C and R.

M

Ummmmmm NOOOO. At least 4 arbitrators disagree with you also. (1 for Usair and 3 for Delta)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PBRstreetgang]

MCD-bag, does your boyfriend "embrass" you after he drills you in the tar star?

:laugh:

Its not embarASSing if you enjoy it!
PBR

 

[PHXFLYR]

McDU,
You should "embrass" the union and try to change this arcane policy from within. Have you tried that?

Nah...he was too busy trying to collect decertification cards back then. More productive use of his time, I guess......


PHXFLYR

 

[Kugelblitz]

DOH sure is "fair" if you happen to be working for a failing carrier and then get merged into an airline with great seniority that will keep your job alive. On the other hand, if one hires with a healthy airline and has every expectation of a decent career and then ends up furloughed because his carrier merges with a sicker carrier for "strategic reasons" (read as money making for management) then I suppose there may be more than one side to the story.

We all make our own beds when we sign on with a carrier, and it is not 'fair' for us to bring our problems to the feet of another pilot group because one is in fear of losing their job. I have no interest in a national seniority number and never will, and I used to be TWA. Since deregulation the airlines act in competition with one another and consequently so must the respective pilot groups. The partition that exists between respective carrier unions isn't perfect but it is the only 'fair' way as it allows all of us to make our own decisions about whom to apply too and accept employment, and then deal with the consequences of those decisions. A national seniority list will do little to mitigate merger infighting and resulting lawsuits. I also disagree with the notion that we would have greater bargaining power with a national seniority system. You would simply see more Jet Blue's and Virgin America's come into the fore.

Unfortunately, there are no garauntees that the carrier we choose will be well managed and that our lifestyles will be maintained. The only people with those garauntees have generally never had to worry about employment or lifestyle maintenance and never will. That would be the one's who run these companies who have no regard for those "insects" who work for them.

All I can say to that is welcome to America and blind, market reliant capitalism.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

DOH sure is "fair" if you happen to be working for a failing carrier and then get merged into an airline with great seniority that will keep your job alive. On the other hand, if one hires with a healthy airline and has every expectation of a decent career and then ends up furloughed because his carrier merges with a sicker carrier for "strategic reasons" (read as money making for management) then I suppose there may be more than one side to the story.

We all make our own beds when we sign on with a carrier, and it is not 'fair' for us to bring our problems to the feet of another pilot group because one is in fear of losing their job. I have no interest in a national seniority number and never will, and I used to be TWA. Since deregulation the airlines act in competition with one another and consequently so must the respective pilot groups. The partition that exists between respective carrier unions isn't perfect but it is the only 'fair' way as it allows all of us to make our own decisions about whom to apply too and accept employment, and then deal with the consequences of those decisions. A national seniority list will do little to mitigate merger infighting and resulting lawsuits. I also disagree with the notion that we would have greater bargaining power with a national seniority system. You would simply see more Jet Blue's and Virgin America's come into the fore.

Unfortunately, there are no garauntees that the carrier we choose will be well managed and that our lifestyles will be maintained. The only people with those garauntees have generally never had to worry about employment or lifestyle maintenance and never will. That would be the one's who run these companies who have no regard for those "insects" who work for them.

All I can say to that is welcome to America and blind, market reliant capitalism.

:beer:

 

[Dan Roman]

DOH sure is "fair" if you happen to be working for a failing carrier and then get merged into an airline with great seniority that will keep your job alive. On the other hand, if one hires with a healthy airline and has every expectation of a decent career and then ends up furloughed because his carrier merges with a sicker carrier for "strategic reasons" (read as money making for management) then I suppose there may be more than one side to the story.

We all make our own beds when we sign on with a carrier, and it is not 'fair' for us to bring our problems to the feet of another pilot group because one is in fear of losing their job. I have no interest in a national seniority number and never will, and I used to be TWA. Since deregulation the airlines act in competition with one another and consequently so must the respective pilot groups. The partition that exists between respective carrier unions isn't perfect but it is the only 'fair' way as it allows all of us to make our own decisions about whom to apply too and accept employment, and then deal with the consequences of those decisions. A national seniority list will do little to mitigate merger infighting and resulting lawsuits. I also disagree with the notion that we would have greater bargaining power with a national seniority system. You would simply see more Jet Blue's and Virgin America's come into the fore.

Unfortunately, there are no garauntees that the carrier we choose will be well managed and that our lifestyles will be maintained. The only people with those garauntees have generally never had to worry about employment or lifestyle maintenance and never will. That would be the one's who run these companies who have no regard for those "insects" who work for them.

All I can say to that is welcome to America and blind, market reliant capitalism.

Very well said!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Looking at the huge screw job Midwest Pilots and Frontier pilots are about to get, ALPA needs no address the greed certain pilot groups have, in not embrassing DOH. Pilots are shortsighted and DOH is the closest you can get to a National seniority list.

This relative seniority crap and taking a snapshot of a pilot list and then placing longtime former airline captains behind new hires needs to stop.

Like when ALPA endorsed RJ flying, they made the same mistake by abandoning DOH. ALPA is a spineless operation, that only is interested in the dues you pay.

Pilots wake up! DOH is fair. The problem is that pilot greed trumps and the shortsightedness of this young pilot generation is a huge problem that needs to be corrected.

DOH NOW with C and R.

M

:laugh::laugh:
What's the matter doosh, no pillow to bite today?
Maybe it's because your US Air man love is embrassed by your presence on FI! Get back to the school yard mc doosh!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Kugelblitz sums it up very nicely. We all know the deal when we start this career. Choose your employer very carefully.

 

[donkeykong]

Kugelblitz sums it up very nicely. We all know the deal when we start this career. Choose your employer very carefully.

so much of it is krap shoot, though. Midwest never filed Ch 11 and looked how f'ed over the pilots got. When I got hired in 01, they were one of the few carriers that had never furloughed. I always thought we would eventually get bought, but nobody saw this coming a year ago.

 

[Fubijaakr]

DoH is not a feature of either the ALPA Merger/Fragmentation policy OR Allegheny/Mohawk.

Guess it won't happen anytime soon.

 

[Kugelblitz]

so much of it is krap shoot, though. Midwest never filed Ch 11 and looked how f'ed over the pilots got. When I got hired in 01, they were one of the few carriers that had never furloughed. I always thought we would eventually get bought, but nobody saw this coming a year ago.

True enough. I remember when Midwest was a highly desirable place to be and nearly as impossible to get on with as Alaska. We are all on a wheel, I am afraid, and it is not a matter of if but when our respecitve carrier hits the bottom of the revolution and everything disintegrates.

Good luck to all of us.

 

[cactusboy53]

Looking at the huge screw job Midwest Pilots and Frontier pilots are about to get, ALPA needs no address the greed certain pilot groups have, in not embrassing DOH. Pilots are shortsighted and DOH is the closest you can get to a National seniority list.

This relative seniority crap and taking a snapshot of a pilot list and then placing longtime former airline captains behind new hires needs to stop.

Like when ALPA endorsed RJ flying, they made the same mistake by abandoning DOH. ALPA is a spineless operation, that only is interested in the dues you pay.

Pilots wake up! DOH is fair. The problem is that pilot greed trumps and the shortsightedness of this young pilot generation is a huge problem that needs to be corrected.

DOH NOW with C and R.

M

Marty;

Does McDonald's offer DOH now?? Good for you!!! "Wake" up yourself, Judge Wake is about to direct USAPA down the path of justice.

Is it true that you are a part time MDA pilot that is married to an East mainline pilot? I thought I heard that somewhere.

 

[becket]

McDoodle.

If you were actually "hireable" by a real airline, this wouldn't be a problem for you. US Air is beyond lucky enough to share the sky with the rest of the viable airlines. Next time you're in Phoenix, take the time and kiss the ass of your fellow pilot that saved your job.

You and your family are welcome.

Westie.

 

[front9]

Only now, because UAL is sinking, are idiots like UALiar spouting buzz words like brotherhood etc. to get a National List to take away YOUR job if he loses his. National List my ass, we all see what you're doing UAL, you're not fooling anyone.

 

[bigtexpilot]

Looking at the huge screw job Midwest Pilots and Frontier pilots are about to get, ALPA needs no address the greed certain pilot groups have, in not embrassing DOH. Pilots are shortsighted and DOH is the closest you can get to a National seniority list.

This relative seniority crap and taking a snapshot of a pilot list and then placing longtime former airline captains behind new hires needs to stop.

Like when ALPA endorsed RJ flying, they made the same mistake by abandoning DOH. ALPA is a spineless operation, that only is interested in the dues you pay.

Pilots wake up! DOH is fair. The problem is that pilot greed trumps and the shortsightedness of this young pilot generation is a huge problem that needs to be corrected.

DOH NOW with C and R.

M

piss-off already

 

[vetrider]

piss-off already

:beer:

 

[Kugelblitz]

Only now, because UAL is sinking, are idiots like UALiar spouting buzz words like brotherhood etc. to get a National List to take away YOUR job if he loses his. National List my ass, we all see what you're doing UAL, you're not fooling anyone.

I hear that from the United pilots in the Paris hotel crew room all the time. What a great family CAL and UAL would make, how we would all just love one another no one would lose their job or seniority. Why, it just makes sense don't you know?

I reminded one of the especially obnoxious United pilots of the following:

"One less airline can make a difference"

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

And it is too damn bad that your S!#B airline did not go away in the 80s during its 2 Ch11s. Having to compete with your airline with your d-scale pay and workrules the last 25 years has made it very difficult on the rest of us. I don't work for Ual, but applied there like most everyone else in the early 90s and don't understand the constant bashing. They may have been a little cocky but who would not have been. Fast upgrades, good equipment, bases, routes, etc. Oh yeah, one more thing contract 2000. The absolute jealousy of some of you amaze me.

I hear that from the United pilots in the Paris hotel crew room all the time. What a great family CAL and UAL would make, how we would all just love one another no one would lose their job or seniority. Why, it just makes sense don't you know?

I reminded one of the especially obnoxious United pilots of the following:

"One less airline can make a difference"

 

[9rj9]

United is out of money again, bankruptcy, wash off the debt and cut pilots/ pay and whamo....exit bankruptcy...all is fixed. We have a new airline...

There will never be a national list...move on the something else.

 

[samballs]

True enough. I remember when Midwest was a highly desirable place to be and nearly as impossible to get on with as Alaska. We are all on a wheel, I am afraid, and it is not a matter of if but when our respecitve carrier hits the bottom of the revolution and everything disintegrates.

Good luck to all of us.

Well this so called wheel u talk about must be flat because we're all at the bottom

 

[Kugelblitz]

And it is too damn bad that your S!#B airline did not go away in the 80s during its 2 Ch11s. Having to compete with your airline with your d-scale pay and workrules the last 25 years has made it very difficult on the rest of us. I don't work for Ual, but applied there like most everyone else in the early 90s and don't understand the constant bashing. They may have been a little cocky but who would not have been. Fast upgrades, good equipment, bases, routes, etc. Oh yeah, one more thing contract 2000. The absolute jealousy of some of you amaze me.

Regardless of what you may think of me or anyone else, publishing a sticker and wearing it on one's flight bag wishing thousands of people lose their jobs for your own benefit is utterly unacceptable. I see United pilots sank to the same low level as anyone else when their backs were/are against the wall so I don't think CAL pilots cornered that market. The rank and file pilot is no more responsible for the privations that occurred at CAL the pilots are at UAL. If you want to pretend that CAL invented all this then go right ahead. Seems to me you may want to express at least some anger at people like Lorenzo, Icahn, Mullin, and Tilton just to name of few, rather than blame pilots and wish they and their S/B airline would go away.

Jealousy? Why would I be jealous? I like the entitlement notion of UAL's rightful survival over another carrier that you imply with your vitriolic post. That is the same crap I hear in the Paris crewroom. Given the utter horror that my colleagues have had to endure, and bear in mind that out of 5000 pilots less than 500 are scabs, the vast majority of these people don't deserve to be treated with the degenerate contempt you represent.

Believe it or not, there are some of us that are perfectly happy not flying for United (with those wonderful fair-minded hiring practices of the late 80's and 1990's) and some of us don't even want to fly for Southwest. Not that a Southwest pilot would ever believe that.

I don't wish you ill, I have lost a job and know what it is like to be where the UAL pilots are. Having said that, I don't intend to give up my job for anyone else's sake. Good luck to you and your endeavors and everyone at United.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You get what your seniority buys. Nothing more, nothing less - regardless of how long you've been with an airline. If it isn't buying you what you want - try someplace else and see if you do better there.

Trying to force your pain on someone from an airline you're merging with is a bunch of crap.

 

[UALX727]

As far as trying to be selective when picking the right company, it cannot be done in this industry. In the end you just have to use all the data you can get at the time of interviewing and make an educated guess.

Maybe some Southwest guys will call B.S., but you just never know where a company will be in ten years down the road. And as crazy as it sounds, you never know where Southwest could be 10 years from now as well....simply based on what I have seen from other companies that were at the top of their game. No offense to SWA, great company, odds very high they will still be at the top....however....

Example: I was a 2000 new-hire at UAL and we were at the top of the industry then......if someone in a time-machine from 2009 came back to 2000 and told me I would be furloughed and I would choose not to take the recall....I would think it was a joke. Looking back, knowing what I knew then I still wouldn't have changed a thing and went UAL.

Currently, I am at AirTran....many of the senior guys here started when I was at United as a new hire. Some wanted to stay, but a lot wanted to get their jet time and move on. Then BAMN...9-11 happened....and the guys who wanted to leave realized they were stuck for awhile (nobody was hiring). After everything settled down, AirTran had changed from a place to build time and move on into a long-term career move. Those guys made a great career move by default, since nobody was hiring then.

Many captains that I had flown with back when I started said they lucked out by staying here....some of the guys had class dates at various majors but never made it to class due to 9-11. I guess my point is no matter how much you research a company, things can change quickly. It is sad to see what has happened to UAL over the last 10 years. I simply cannot believe Tilton still has a job....he has destoyed that place.

 

[T2Bus]

MCDU....Is it true that you got fired from Wendys? Taco Bell is hiring.

 

[T2Bus]

Great news....MCDU just got hired at.......(drum roll please)....MCDONALDS. They use DOH to operate the fryers. DOH is dead in the water, it's called Federal Law.

 

[T2Bus]

Great news....MCDU just got hired at.......(drum roll please)....MCDONALDS. They use DOH to operate the fryers. DOH is dead in the water, it's called Federal Law.

Sorry guys, false reporting.....the job was at U-Wash-Me. No DOH there, sorry.